US Politics

There is absolutely no justification for the killing of Renee Good or for the killing of Ashley Babbit. As Orwell said: "Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence."
A fair point, I think that should be kept in mind for a lot of discussions where FACTS are used.
I think the threads about COVID, the Post Office scandal and also the BBC have demonstrated how distortion of data, and actual lies, are used by people in power positions that we thought we could trust.
 
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Law enforcement officers aren't required to wait until they're actually hit to defend themselves. This was a justified use of force against a non compliant driver weaponising her car during an enforcement operation not some gangster overreaction.

But anyways believe what you want and if you have a problem take it up with tampon tim who signed the police Minnesota reform law back in 2020👍 I provided it in earlier posts. Take a look.


Not only that but it's about defending threats to the public too. It doesn't have to be a threat to the officer, and that includes lethal force to prevent getaway of a public threat. She was about to speed off, that's a threat.
 
I can maybe see the Saudi's and Israel being used to launch military action by the USA in Iran. Probably just missile and aircraft 'precision' bombing at this stage
 
I can maybe see the Saudi's and Israel being used to launch military action by the USA in Iran. Probably just missile and aircraft 'precision' bombing at this stage

No one will miss the Mullahs.

Then Israel's regime change plan since the 90s will be near complete.

If only the protection of Europe was such a concern.
 
Please zip Wisbech's fly up before you finish down there, there's a good lad Dan.
See what I mean, mate?

The 'truth ' from Spindle/Tate (the portmanteau name would be 'Spite') is garnished by one Mario Fratto, apparently an impartial lawyer and his 'expert's' view. Of course he omits to inform us that Fratto is a republican (Mario Fratto (Republican Party) ran for election to the U.S. House to represent New York's 24th Congressional District. He lost in the Republican primary on June 25, 2024). If I was going to refer to an impartial opinion, I certainly wouldn't consider him to be one; how could anybody?

Then we hear that, "apart from the wheels turning right" everything else pointed to her driving at the agent with intent to endanger life. That little exception is absolutely crucial as to her intent. She was turning her car away from the scene: that's no small matter we can or should just brush over. Why brush over it so readily? It's pivotal.

In Frizzo's video evidence, as the car moves we see the agent seemingly leaning onto the bonnet, as if trying to halt the car, thus putting himself into unnecessary danger. He then fires three shots into the front of the car.

On the point of law about her intent, does it warrant shooting her at all? In Fratto's 'evidence', which I'm presuming is to show how disruptive she was being, we hear a witness saying that protesters (of which she was one) had been hindering the agents all day up to the shooting. No doubt the agents would have found this to be aggravating. However, it does tell us that Good was not going to flee beyond apprehension; she had been there all day and would, no doubt, continue her aggravating behaviour further on. In any event, surely those agents would have taken the car reg already and if not, then during the incident. If she drove off, they ought to have known that they could detain her later knowing her details from the reg. Then would be the point to arrest and charge her, whatever that charge would be.

The assertion that she presented a danger to life after she driven off is just completely unlikely since she'd been there all day and it was clear that she wanted to hinder the agents but never to use her car as a weapon.

Fratto tells us that the agent who shot Good had previously been dragged along the road by a felon's car only last June (!!) necessitating a hospital stay. This is given as some kind of mitigation, I'm assuming. Can anyone tell me how a serving officer who had suffered such trauma could be allowed back into duty without proper management or aftercare in January? Now, I expect the pro agent forces on here would be barking "How do you know there was no aftercare?!?!" to which I would reply "Clearly not enough" or else why would that previous incident have any relevance here?

Situations like those surrounding Good and her confederates were bound to be full of tension and it seems the agent was not ready/ to face these type of scenarios. Yes, the protesters were a pain in the arse but a properly trained agent will expect this; it's par for the course. The fact that an agent shouted "F****** B****" does not suggest, in any way, that the agents present had kept a calm, professional attitude during the exchange.

Yes, not getting out of the car when asked has proved to be a fatal error and, certainly, if she hadn't been there at all, then none of this would've happened. However, she was present and her life was lost by the inappropriate way that the agents, particularly Ross, acted. It caused death; a death which was entirely unnecessary.

Take the car reg, let her leave if that's what she wants, then apprehend her later in a calmer, more controlled environment., then charge her, if considered appropriate.

To me, I'm thinking that, in my own country, I'd want all policing to be accountable. Once officers are given automatic immunity, no matter what they do, it's a danger signal to our civil liberties and safety. Would you want our police force to have absolute immunity?

Perhaps you do.
 
I can maybe see the Saudi's and Israel being used to launch military action by the USA in Iran. Probably just missile and aircraft 'precision' bombing at this stage
I would imagine your commute home from work tonight will be fraught with throngs of blue haired libtards & their ilk blocking streets & traffic whilst they are protesting against the Mullahs?
Please allow extra time for your travels & expect delays.
 
Don't deliberately obstruct armed officers of the law in their duty. Because accidents can happen.

This is precisely it. If you obstruct law enforcement during an operation then you are breaking the law. And if you drive your car towards a law enforcement officer then expect an unfortunate tragic outcome.
 
Just a reminder of part of the Minnesota law on police reform which was signed by tampon tim:

(2) as set forth below, it is the intent of the legislature that peace officers use deadly force only when necessary in defense of human life or to prevent great bodily harm. In determining whether deadly force is necessary, officers shall evaluate each situation in light of the particular circumstances of each case;

(3) that the decision by a peace officer to use deadly force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using deadly force

(3) that the decision by a peace officer to use deadly force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using deadly force.
 
This is precisely it. If you obstruct law enforcement during an operation then you are breaking the law. And if you drive your car towards a law enforcement officer then expect an unfortunate tragic outcome.
Did you actually read my post?

Ross is completely innocent then, is he? Hard - done- by?

See, Dan. Another one.

Absolutely impenetrable. Nothing, but nothing, should be allowed to stand in the way of the Great Immigration Purge.

Haha! so predictable.
 
Just a reminder of part of the Minnesota law on police reform which was signed by tampon tim:

(2) as set forth below, it is the intent of the legislature that peace officers use deadly force only when necessary in defense of human life or to prevent great bodily harm. In determining whether deadly force is necessary, officers shall evaluate each situation in light of the particular circumstances of each case;

(3) that the decision by a peace officer to use deadly force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using deadly force

(3) that the decision by a peace officer to use deadly force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using deadly force.
All answered in my post. Did you actually read it?

This feels like pushing s*** up hill backwards.
 
Did you actually read my post?

Ross is completely innocent then, is he? Hard - done- by?

See, Dan. Another one.

Absolutely impenetrable. Nothing, but nothing, should be allowed to stand in the way of the Great Immigration Purge.

Haha! so predictable.

If you want me to read your posts then lower the tone. I have not displayed any aggressive behavior or insults to you in my posts.
 
If you want me to read your posts then lower the tone. I have not displayed any aggressive behavior or insults to you in my posts.
I'm sorry mate but it's frustration from seeing how much people are being attacked on here. Indeed, you haven't maligned me.

I do think my post above is measured in it's tone, don't you?
 
Did you actually read my post?

Ross is completely innocent then, is he? Hard - done- by?

See, Dan. Another one.

Absolutely impenetrable. Nothing, but nothing, should be allowed to stand in the way of the Great Immigration Purge.

Haha! so predictable.

More importantly, ICE are unpopular in America and their methods even more so.


Once Trump loses the House in the midterms (Democrats 3/10 on to take control) him and his cronies will lose a lot of their powers. In theory anyway; we all saw in 2021 what Trump and his base do when an election doesn’t go the way they want.
 
I'm sorry mate but it's frustration from seeing how much people are being attacked on here. Indeed, you haven't maligned me.

I do think my post above is measured in it's tone, don't you?

That's fair. I believe at this point maybe we should all agree to disagree and move on. We arnt getting anywhere. 🙂
 
You missed out "rather than with the benefit of hindsight"


I didn't miss it out but I did expect someone to jump on that lifebelt. The hindsight is not appropriate here. We see an agent who needn't have acted the way he did, if he was a properly trained, professional operative. You need no benefit of hindsight to act like a professional agent.

They/he didn't.

What about the benefit of foresight?

She and her mates had been doing this all day: a pain in the butt but peaceful. Surely his benefit of hindsight might have told him she, in foresight, was no danger to life. In that case it's appropriate.

No?
 

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