US Politics

[Spiderman]

No they haven’t. Nor could they! War’s are declared by countries. Not by gangs.

There is a legally correct way to deal with some issues and quiet covert ways to deal with issues that are necessary but not legally manageable. Openly using military assets and then claiming credit isn’t either.

You can declare war on the drugs trade, many countries claim to have done this including us

 

[Teddy Eagle]

No. I am talking about Trump describing perfectly truthful and legally correct statements by Democratic Congressmen and women as sedition and calling for their execution.

Telling servicemen it’s their duty to obey the law isn’t sedition. Telling them it’s their duty to ignore illegal orders isn’t sedition.

Whether Trump is issuing illegal orders regarding the boats suspected of drug carrying is another question. As is whether it’s justified. The two things not being identical.

What is clear is that he believes that servicemen should obey every order he gives, legal or not. Which is the attitude of an autocrat.

Servicemen owe their loyalty to the constitution. Not to any individual.

The US oath of enlistment does include the line

...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

You can declare war on the drugs trade, many countries claim to have done this including us

Not in a formal international sense. The so called “war on drugs” is more rhetoric than real war. Internal law enforcement campaigns are of course legal and can sometimes request military assistance. It can also be done in cooperation with other countries.

Sinking ships, and presumably killing their crew, which are suspected of running drugs, belonging to any country you haven’t actually declared war on, is illegal under international law. Permission to board and search can be sought from the country of registration but they cannot touched in international waters otherwise. Best to track and arrest when they enter your territory.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The US oath of enlistment does include the line

...and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States

It does but selective quotes are misleading, sometimes very misleading, as this is.

The actual oath is:- “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

So allegiance to the constitution comes first.

You would need to study and understand what the precise meaning of those regulations and code is, but in essence it means nothing illegal is permissible. You can read about it here:-

What the military oath of enlistment says about legal and illegal orders

The call from Democratic veterans in Congress highlights the federal law that dictates the conduct of members of the military.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Teddy Eagle]

It does but selective quotes are misleading, sometimes very misleading, as this is.

The actual oath is:- “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

So allegiance to the constitution comes first.

You would need to study and understand what the precise meaning of those regulations and code is, but in essence it means nothing illegal is permissible. You can read about it here:-

What the military oath of enlistment says about legal and illegal orders

The call from Democratic veterans in Congress highlights the federal law that dictates the conduct of members of the military.

abcnews.go.com

Except when Trump is being quoted of course. Now the order of words is important.
Nevertheless they do swear to obey the orders of the President.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

What was the boat reference then?

Because the issue of sinking suspected drug boats seems to have been behind the video made by the Congressmen.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Except when Trump is being quoted of course. Now the order of words is important.
Nevertheless they do swear to obey the orders of the President.

You weren’t making a documentary about a much wider subject.

They don’t swear to obey the orders of the President. They swear to obey them, “according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Just swearing to obey any orders of any individual would be unconstitutional.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

You weren’t making a documentary about a much wider subject.

They don’t swear to obey the orders of the President. They swear to obey them, “according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Just swearing to obey any orders of any individual would be unconstitutional.

That's right; I'm not the BBC.
As always it's about context and the context here is that you feel so sorry for Donald Trump that even verbatim quotes can be discounted.

 

[cryrst]

Not in a formal international sense. The so called “war on drugs” is more rhetoric than real war. Internal law enforcement campaigns are of course legal and can sometimes request military assistance. It can also be done in cooperation with other countries.

Sinking ships, and presumably killing their crew, which are suspected of running drugs, belonging to any country you haven’t actually declared war on, is illegal under international law. Permission to board and search can be sought from the country of registration but they cannot touched in international waters otherwise. Best to track and arrest when they enter your territory.

I doubt any of these boats are fishing or taking tourists on a tour. They all look like high powered speed boats. Probably carrying many kgs of drugs which will kill Americans and others. Good riddance to bad rubbish. I reckon the numbers of smuggling boats have reduced in the last few months. Not through sinking, just through the fact that trump is correct yet again and they are crapping themselves. If they were innocent you would have read about it by now so poirot not needed.
Stop the boats. Rings a bell you think !