US Politics

[Wisbech Eagle]

One of the down sizes of belong to a block is that other countries problems become yours. For example The UK doesn't care about olive oil as we are not producers, however to the Mediterranean countries it is extremely important. So you can end up n a trade war with another country other stuff you actually don't care about.

We are negotiating free trade agreements so we can focus on the stuff we want / need and not have to take account of 27 other countries requirements.

There are down sides to most arrangements. That’s not in dispute. It’s whether the upsides outweigh them and in the case of our remaining members of the EU I don’t believe there is much room for dispute.

 

[Stirlingsays]

One of the down sizes of belong to a block is that other countries problems become yours. For example The UK doesn't care about olive oil as we are not producers, however to the Mediterranean countries it is extremely important. So you can end up n a trade war with another country other stuff you actually don't care about.

We are negotiating free trade agreements so we can focus on the stuff we want / need and not have to take account of 27 other countries requirements.

Yep, this was one of the areas where Thatcher was always very good.

The EU is vastly better when it focuses upon seeing itself as an economic zone that allowed its members as much freedom as possible.

Her change from being an advocate to a harsh critic was based upon what it morphed into. She would see the opportunities presented by these tariffs for an island nation such as ours.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1907883583228051964

Lots of old clips like this from Democrats on tariffs and how good they are.

Targeted tariffs aimed at specific issues are used by many countries.

That though is not what we are now getting from Trump. This is a sledgehammer approach, using the threats of a bully, not carefully crafted management. It will destroy markets through its unpredictable nature which in turn hurts those it claims to help. If your customers get poorer then they cannot buy your goods.

No one outside of the Trump circle thinks this will produce anything positive for anyone.

Trying to deal with the huge debt that the USA has is said to be the ultimate objective. Yet many others say this can only be achieved via internal demand reduction and taxation whilst some say it’s unnecessary as the debt is only theoretical and can go on being increased for ever. People with money need to use or lend it.

 

[eaglesdare]

So basically:

Anyone other than trump does tariffs = good

Trump does tariffs = bad

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think the point isn't so much about whether Trump's protectionism is right for America or not.....people can make predictions but only the fullness of time will reveal that. The point being made is that the Democrats are huge hypocrites who change positions based upon political motives.

This is also true of the Republicans, dependent upon the issue, so personally I think it's just a valid criticism of modern western politics, especially in the US.

 

[eaglesdare]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

Oh look sleepy joe increased tariffs. No outrage then. I wonder why 🤔

 

[DanH]

So basically:

Anyone other than trump does tariffs = good

Trump does tariffs = bad

Not even close.

Nearly every country in the world imposes tariffs to some extent, and they can be a useful tool when applied in a measured fashion.

It’s the size of the tariffs and the arbitrary and unnecessary nature that is the problem.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So basically:

Anyone other than trump does tariffs = good

Trump does tariffs = bad

I'm not sure how you've deduced that from the post.

Tariffs, like any fiscal lever, are not inherently good or inherently bad - when applied correctly, they have clear benefits, and when they are applied incorrectly, they can very damaging.

Historically, tariffs have been most successful when they are targeted on specific industries or sectors.

We'll see how Trump's approach plays out, but the early signs are not great.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/china-tariffs-biden-trump/index.html

Oh look sleepy joe increased tariffs. No outrage then. I wonder why 🤔

This is such a poor way to approach a topic - you're either deliberately misrepresenting things or you don't understand tariffs or how they are used.

Again; tariffs as a tool are neither good nor bad - it's entirely dependent on how and why they're used.

 

[eaglesdare]

I'm not sure how you've deduced that from the post.

Tariffs, like any fiscal lever, are not inherently good or inherently bad - when applied correctly, they have clear benefits, and when they are applied incorrectly, they can very damaging.

Historically, tariffs have been most successful when they are targeted on specific industries or sectors.

We'll see how Trump's approach plays out, but the early signs are not great.

It's early days infact it's only been 2 days 🤪

My guess is that the tariffs will lower once world leaders meet with the President and negotiate a good trade deal. The likes of Argentina and India are already looking to discuss a trade deal. Whereas the EU are posturing as per usual.

 

[eaglesdare]

Not even close.

Nearly every country in the world imposes tariffs to some extent, and they can be a useful tool when applied in a measured fashion.

It’s the size of the tariffs and the arbitrary and unnecessary nature that is the problem.

I guess world leaders will just have to get around the table and work out a better deal 🤝 The tariffs I am sure will be lower by the end of the year for most countries.

 

[ASCPFC]

I noted that Trump said tariffs were bad from friend or foe, often worse from friends. However, friendship costs something sometimes; it's been that way forever. I think the USA is risking losing allies. How that pans out I don't know. I know I would prefer my economy to not rely on the USA at all now, and I wish I could say the same for defence too.
A positive of this for both sides of the political spectrum in Europe and Britain and Ireland will surely be decreased reliance on the USA.
Surely left wing people don't particularly like the global superpower USA world police? And surely right wing Europeans are largely nationalist and want their country to be independent?
I think Trump is dividing people who could be aligned in this. Another point I'll make about Trump; I mentioned this to a few people and they agreed - Musk is Trump's fall guy. Wonder if he knows that? I think he does and doesn't care.

 

[DanH]

This is such a poor way to approach a topic - you're either deliberately misrepresenting things or you don't understand tariffs or how they are used.

Again; tariffs as a tool are neither good nor bad - it's entirely dependent on how and why they're used.

It's a little bit of a), but mainly b), but he's not the only one on this thread.

 

[DanH]

I guess world leaders will just have to get around the table and work out a better deal 🤝 The tariffs I am sure will be lower by the end of the year for most countries.

Or as a lot of major economies not reliant on American exports will do - hit back harder. The biggest loser being the American consumer.

 

[ASCPFC]

Or as a lot of major economies not reliant on American exports will do - hit back harder. The biggest loser being the American consumer.

I think turning to other markets is the real solution. If that be China so be it.

 

[eaglesdare]

Or as a lot of major economies not reliant on American exports will do - hit back harder. The biggest loser being the American consumer.

I for one would not want my country to be so reliant on the US 🤷🏻‍♂️ maybe it's a kick in the arse the major economies needed.

 

[Badger11]

I for one would not want my country to be so reliant on the US 🤷🏻‍♂️ maybe it's a kick in the arse the major economies needed.

Or any country for that matter.

We should be taking strategic decisions about imports of fuel, raw materials or computer chips or anything that would allow another country to blackmail us.

 

[DanH]

This is why what he has done is so utterly ridiculous and downright dangerous.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1908140423861706813

 

[kevlee]

I noted that Trump said tariffs were bad from friend or foe, often worse from friends. However, friendship costs something sometimes; it's been that way forever. I think the USA is risking losing allies. How that pans out I don't know. I know I would prefer my economy to not rely on the USA at all now, and I wish I could say the same for defence too.
A positive of this for both sides of the political spectrum in Europe and Britain and Ireland will surely be decreased reliance on the USA.
Surely left wing people don't particularly like the global superpower USA world police? And surely right wing Europeans are largely nationalist and want their country to be independent?
I think Trump is dividing people who could be aligned in this. Another point I'll make about Trump; I mentioned this to a few people and they agreed - Musk is Trump's fall guy. Wonder if he knows that? I think he does and doesn't care.

Musk has lost a lot of money this week, billions apparently, due to the tariffs. Who knows what he really thinks.
China has just retaliated. The US stock market is falling badly, as is the FTSE, although not as badly. There was an economist on LBC who pointed out that Trump wasn't making his decisions on economic grounds, but ideological ones and that he isn't really bothered about markets crashing. The fact is that there is now serious economic uncertainty and it does affect everyone with a work or private pension whatever your political persuasion, as billions are wiped of the values of plans and schemes.

 

[Spiderman]

Or any country for that matter.

We should be taking strategic decisions about imports of fuel, raw materials or computer chips or anything that would allow another country to blackmail us.

Like selling Steel Works to the Chinese you mean!