Trepidation for the 26/27 Prem season ?

[Willo]

Moving on and back to the subject of the thread, do I sense a change of wind amongst my fellow Palace doomsters?

Are we beginning to feel that things may be just about ok this season?

Still a way to go before the transfer window closes but if and it's still a big if, if we can hold on to our remaining key players (the likes of Wharton, Sarr, Henderson, Munoz and even Mateta), can we approach what will be the remainder of the season with some modicum of hope that we'll still be a PL club come June 2027?

Since the end of last season we've lost Lacroix and Clyne, kept Kamada, and gained Mingueza and Tomiyasu on so-called "frees" along with possibly a returning Doucoure and possibly an improved França, which IMO makes us marginally stronger than we were back in May.

If we do bring in the lad from Salt Lake and another CB will that be enough?

The level of the water in my glass has increased slightly over the past couple of weeks.

I am well known for being an 'Elijah of doom' on HOL, the resident 'Doomster', however with a fortnight to the commencement of the season I am keeping an 'Open mind' about our prospects this coming campaign.
I shall wait for events to unfold before forming an opinion.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I am well known for being an 'Elijah of doom' on HOL, the resident 'Doomster', however with a fortnight to the commencement of the season I am keeping an 'Open mind' about our prospects this coming campaign.
I shall wait for events to unfold before forming an opinion.

Who are you and what have you done with Willo? We demand his immediate return.

 

[Jim_Cannon]

I am well known for being an 'Elijah of doom' on HOL, the resident 'Doomster', however with a fortnight to the commencement of the season I am keeping an 'Open mind' about our prospects this coming campaign.
I shall wait for events to unfold before forming an opinion.

A fair assessment. IMO our squad is stronger than last summer but our strongest 11 is weaker

 

[Willo]

Who are you and what have you done with Willo? We demand his immediate return.

I am 'Prince Willo' the artist formerly known as 'Willo'. 🤣 🤣

 

[ASCPFC]

I am well known for being an 'Elijah of doom' on HOL, the resident 'Doomster', however with a fortnight to the commencement of the season I am keeping an 'Open mind' about our prospects this coming campaign.
I shall wait for events to unfold before forming an opinion.

I'm not happy about this. It's like the Ravens at the Tower. We absolutely need you to predict that we will go down.

 

[Willo]

I'm not happy about this. It's like the Ravens at the Tower. We absolutely need you to predict that we will go down.

🤣 🤣 🤣

It is conceivable that your wish might be granted just prior to the start of the season !
At this juncture I am not in that mindset. I am not over-freighted with negativity but perhaps 'Normal service' will resume in a couple of weeks.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Moving on and back to the subject of the thread, do I sense a change of wind amongst my fellow Palace doomsters?

Are we beginning to feel that things may be just about ok this season?

Still a way to go before the transfer window closes but if and it's still a big if, if we can hold on to our remaining key players (the likes of Wharton, Sarr, Henderson, Munoz and even Mateta), can we approach what will be the remainder of the season with some modicum of hope that we'll still be a PL club come June 2027?

Since the end of last season we've lost Lacroix and Clyne, kept Kamada, and gained Mingueza and Tomiyasu on so-called "frees" along with possibly a returning Doucoure and possibly an improved França, which IMO makes us marginally stronger than we were back in May.

If we do bring in the lad from Salt Lake and another CB will that be enough?

The level of the water in my glass has increased slightly over the past couple of weeks.

I think it's finely balanced. We need all the key players to stay fit. Imagine being without Sarr, for example.

Even with the signing of Tomiyasu we are nothing like as strong at the back as we were last year. No combination of Riad, Richards, Canvot, and Tomiyasu is anything like as good as Richards, Lacroix, and Guehi. I am particularly concerned about who will play as the central sweeper. None of them seem suited to it.

The biggest area of concern is scoring goals. Mateta and Sarr should have plenty of finishing power but I'd be surprised if the former stays beyond the close of the window. Moreover, we struggled for goals last year even with both in the team, and a lot of that was down to a lack of creativity. I'm not sure that will change. A lot rests on Pino in that respect. He showed some flashes of ability in Europe and that seems to have encouraged many that he will come good. I'm not so confident. Europe provided weak opposition, and he was appalling in most league games.

And that's the big concern. As things stand we are probably reliant on some or all of Canvot, Riad, Larsen, Pino, Johnson, or maybe the new kid from America if he signs, sustaining performance levels they just haven't achieved before.

 

[mtp1958]

I am well known for being an 'Elijah of doom' on HOL, the resident 'Doomster', however with a fortnight to the commencement of the season I am keeping an 'Open mind' about our prospects this coming campaign.
I shall wait for events to unfold before forming an opinion.

Wife has told you off lol

 

[Davepalace707]

I think it's finely balanced. We need all the key players to stay fit. Imagine being without Sarr, for example.

Even with the signing of Tomiyasu we are nothing like as strong at the back as we were last year. No combination of Riad, Richards, Canvot, and Tomiyasu is anything like as good as Richards, Lacroix, and Guehi. I am particularly concerned about who will play as the central sweeper. None of them seem suited to it.

The biggest area of concern is scoring goals. Mateta and Sarr should have plenty of finishing power but I'd be surprised if the former stays beyond the close of the window. Moreover, we struggled for goals last year even with both in the team, and a lot of that was down to a lack of creativity. I'm not sure that will change. A lot rests on Pino in that respect. He showed some flashes of ability in Europe and that seems to have encouraged many that he will come good. I'm not so confident. Europe provided weak opposition, and he was appalling in most league games.

And that's the big concern. As things stand we are probably reliant on some or all of Canvot, Riad, Larsen, Pino, Johnson, or maybe the new kid from America if he signs, sustaining performance levels they just haven't achieved before.

And Franca? If he can stay fit

 

[TheBigToePunt]

And Franca? If he can stay fit

For me he is, at very best, on the longshot list with Esse and Rak-Sakhi.

I think we expect Pino, Johnson, Larsen, Nketiah etc to play, it's whether they play well that is in doubt. I don't think anyone would be seriously surprised if Franca didn't play. That's the difference .

If I had to guess, I'd say he'll end up out on loan to a lower standard of football or something.

 

[Malcolm Al]

I think that apart from defending against goals and scoring goals we will be fine...

 

[ASCPFC]

As people have noticed, for some time now we've seen people walking through our defence. Every team has had plenty of chances against us for a while now, bar a couple of games. Fulham could have scored at least two or three more. The defence aren't working hard enough in transition as a back five. It's putting our midfield under pressure to turn and get back. Hence we lack our ability to break quickly. It's becoming less regular that you see us break. There were maybe two breaks against Fulham - we were clearly trying that. The three central defenders need to be closer together when out of possession. And the two wing backs are slow to slot in. It's our main problem currently. Losing Lacroix is a very poor piece of business. We all know defences keep you up.
Combine that with our usual inability to convert chances and the way we look at defending set pieces and we look like a continuation of the team since January. One that had around the worst Premier League for for a lot of the second half of the season.
Will Europe be our salvation again? Hard to know. Could be very tight at the bottom of the league.

 

[est1905]

I think it's finely balanced. We need all the key players to stay fit. Imagine being without Sarr, for example.

Even with the signing of Tomiyasu we are nothing like as strong at the back as we were last year. No combination of Riad, Richards, Canvot, and Tomiyasu is anything like as good as Richards, Lacroix, and Guehi. I am particularly concerned about who will play as the central sweeper. None of them seem suited to it.

The biggest area of concern is scoring goals. Mateta and Sarr should have plenty of finishing power but I'd be surprised if the former stays beyond the close of the window. Moreover, we struggled for goals last year even with both in the team, and a lot of that was down to a lack of creativity. I'm not sure that will change. A lot rests on Pino in that respect. He showed some flashes of ability in Europe and that seems to have encouraged many that he will come good. I'm not so confident. Europe provided weak opposition, and he was appalling in most league games.

And that's the big concern. As things stand we are probably reliant on some or all of Canvot, Riad, Larsen, Pino, Johnson, or maybe the new kid from America if he signs, sustaining performance levels they just haven't achieved before.

I heard the club have now decided no key players will be allowed to leave in this window. If true Mateta will remain a Palace player. He might go in January if someone makes a decent offer and he still hasn't extended his contract but for now at least I expect him to stay. Not that I rate him especially highly anyway. He is replaceable.
In terms of your observations on our defence, I agree with you in the here and now but I'd be shocked if we didn't sign at least one quality central defender before the window shuts. By quality I'm not talking about Disasi

 

[Norbury Old Git]

So the defence is not as strong? This was said when Andersen left and then we won our first trophy. It was said when Guehi waked out (for a measly £20m) and our exhausted team won another trophy. Now Lacroix has gone and we are left with:

Munoz - Columbia international regular (second best team in South America);
Mingueza - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 4 full Spanish caps;
Richards - Seasoned USA international and former Bayern Munich player;
Riad - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 10 Morocco caps;
Canvot - French U21 international;
Tomiyasu - Capped 46 times for Japan (Asia’s top team) and ex-Arsenal regular;
Mitchell - Experienced with two England caps and arguably the best left back in EPL;
Sosa - Seasoned Croatia international with 26 caps.

I cannot remember us having such an array of defensive talent with four playing
in the World Cup. Nor have I included Cardines who seems to be getting better and better. It seems we are after another central defender so Sage has got his work cut out to keep them all happy.

 

[ASCPFC]

So the defence is not as strong? This was said when Andersen left and then we won our first trophy. It was said when Guehi waked out (for a measly £20m) and our exhausted team won another trophy. Now Lacroix has gone and we are left with:

Munoz - Columbia international regular (second best team in South America);
Mingueza - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 4 full Spanish caps;
Richards - Seasoned USA international and former Bayern Munich player;
Riad - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 10 Morocco caps;
Canvot - French U21 international;
Tomiyasu - Capped 46 times for Japan (Asia’s top team) and ex-Arsenal regular;
Mitchell - Experienced with two England caps and arguably the best left back in EPL;
Sosa - Seasoned Croatia international with 26 caps.

I cannot remember us having such an array of defensive talent with four playing
in the World Cup. Nor have I included Cardines who seems to be getting better and better. It seems we are after another central defender so Sage has got his work cut out to keep them all happy.

He'll probably be best to start with concentrating on trying stop us giving away three easy chances to the opposition every game, rather than worry about who's happy to begin with. We've been conceding simple goals in games for months now. If the players are all great, then it must be the way we're implementing the system. However, a lot seem from individual errors and set pieces. You'd think seasoned internationals would know how to defend set pieces but we've looked all over the place for months now.
Our strength was our defence but it hasn't been the case for a good while. Hopefully, it will improve.

 

[PatrickA]

So the defence is not as strong? This was said when Andersen left and then we won our first trophy. It was said when Guehi waked out (for a measly £20m) and our exhausted team won another trophy. Now Lacroix has gone and we are left with:

Munoz - Columbia international regular (second best team in South America);
Mingueza - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 4 full Spanish caps;
Richards - Seasoned USA international and former Bayern Munich player;
Riad - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 10 Morocco caps;
Canvot - French U21 international;
Tomiyasu - Capped 46 times for Japan (Asia’s top team) and ex-Arsenal regular;
Mitchell - Experienced with two England caps and arguably the best left back in EPL;
Sosa - Seasoned Croatia international with 26 caps.

I cannot remember us having such an array of defensive talent with four playing
in the World Cup. Nor have I included Cardines who seems to be getting better and better. It seems we are after another central defender so Sage has got his work cut out to keep them all happy.

Without wishing to appear difficult, you may have convinced yourself, but for me the jury is still out.
The important thing is how the defence operates as a unit.

This was proven with Richards, Lacroix and Guehi over many games.
They operated seamlessly and credit to the work on the training field as well as the players' individual talent.

We're now in unknown territory.
The European victory should not mask our terrible league form in the second half of the season where every corner/set piece we conceded looked like it could result in a goal, particularly when played towards the near post.

We do have decent defenders and hopefully a successful unit will emerge in time, but I'm not taking it for granted.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

So the defence is not as strong? This was said when Andersen left and then we won our first trophy. It was said when Guehi waked out (for a measly £20m) and our exhausted team won another trophy. Now Lacroix has gone and we are left with:

Munoz - Columbia international regular (second best team in South America);
Mingueza - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 4 full Spanish caps;
Richards - Seasoned USA international and former Bayern Munich player;
Riad - Came through the Barcelona Academy and 10 Morocco caps;
Canvot - French U21 international;
Tomiyasu - Capped 46 times for Japan (Asia’s top team) and ex-Arsenal regular;
Mitchell - Experienced with two England caps and arguably the best left back in EPL;
Sosa - Seasoned Croatia international with 26 caps.

I cannot remember us having such an array of defensive talent with four playing
in the World Cup. Nor have I included Cardines who seems to be getting better and better. It seems we are after another central defender so Sage has got his work cut out to keep them all happy.

I accept what you say about them all individually having impressive CVs but this is the modern premier league, where most teams have players with those kind of backgrounds. Often including those that go down. There are loads of players with those type of CVs that just don't cut it in this league.

It could all be fine. Maybe better than ever if the younger or new ones do better than expected. But it's not obvious based on individual performances to date that the centre of our defence is strong enough.

We are hoping players do more than we've seen them do before, rather than that they continue to do what they've been doing.

 

[doombear]

He'll probably be best to start with concentrating on trying stop us giving away three easy chances to the opposition every game, rather than worry about who's happy to begin with. We've been conceding simple goals in games for months now. If the players are all great, then it must be the way we're implementing the system. However, a lot seem from individual errors and set pieces. You'd think seasoned internationals would know how to defend set pieces but we've looked all over the place for months now.
Our strength was our defence but it hasn't been the case for a good while. Hopefully, it will improve.

So when was our defending better?

Here are the league goals conceded since I started keeping records:
2018/19 = 53 Hodgson
2019/20 = 50 Hodgson
2020/21 = 64 Hodgson
2021/22 = 45 Vieira
2022/23 = 49 Viera/Hodgosn
2023/24 = 59 Hodgson/Glasner
2024/25 = 51 Glasner
2025/26 = 51 Glasner

Our best record was when Vieira was manager and we had a back 4 with Ward, Anderson, Guehi and Mitchell. WE even had a positive goal difference in the 21/22 season.

Is the issue the system?

 

[ASCPFC]

So when was our defending better?

Here are the league goals conceded since I started keeping records:
2018/19 = 53 Hodgson
2019/20 = 50 Hodgson
2020/21 = 64 Hodgson
2021/22 = 45 Vieira
2022/23 = 49 Viera/Hodgosn
2023/24 = 59 Hodgson/Glasner
2024/25 = 51 Glasner
2025/26 = 51 Glasner

Our best record was when Vieira was manager and we had a back 4 with Ward, Anderson, Guehi and Mitchell. WE even had a positive goal difference in the 21/22 season.

Is the issue the system?

The issue we had was more like half a season. The latter half of last season. We conceded 1.5 goals per league match last half of the season. But only just over 1 per match first half of the season. 30 in 20 latter half. And 21 in 18 first half. We were similarly disappointing in goals scored from first half of the season to second half. It was pretty clear the wheels fell off at some stage.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

So when was our defending better?

Here are the league goals conceded since I started keeping records:
2018/19 = 53 Hodgson
2019/20 = 50 Hodgson
2020/21 = 64 Hodgson
2021/22 = 45 Vieira
2022/23 = 49 Viera/Hodgosn
2023/24 = 59 Hodgson/Glasner
2024/25 = 51 Glasner
2025/26 = 51 Glasner

Our best record was when Vieira was manager and we had a back 4 with Ward, Anderson, Guehi and Mitchell. WE even had a positive goal difference in the 21/22 season.

Is the issue the system?

I think you'd have to do two extra bits of work to get a proper answer to the question.

Firstly, you'd have to find the stats for how many chances we gave up per season, rather than goals. The difference between the two is often down to opposition finishing as much as anything we did. It might turn out that we actually defended slightly better in seasons when we let more in.

Secondly, and probably relatedly, I think you'd need to get some kind of handle on how much attacking threat we carried in those seasons. Although it doesn't always work this way, generally if the opposition has their hands full handling our attack then they will have less attacks of their own.

That's another reason why I'm slightly worried about the strength of our back line. I don't think we will outscore many sides, and I also don't think we will carry enough threat to make other teams wary of getting at us.

☹️