The Brexit thread

[chris123]

As someone who is well out of the loop, and has no axe to grind, has Brexit been a success, nearly 7 years on?

They can't agree the European Commission 7 year budget that runs til 2034. The two largest contributors have no money.

 

[silvertop]

Giving up £450m to allow EU students to pay home student fees for starters. How many will repay the loans? Perhaps my kids should stop laying theirs

You know that's fully reciprocal right?

 

[Spiderman]

They can't agree the European Commission 7 year budget that runs til 2034. The two largest contributors have no money.

They will have when Burnham gives them gazillions so he can join their club

 

[silvertop]

I was thinking of Angela Merkel in 2015, open border to a million.

I don't quite see the relevance

 

[Spiderman]

You know that's fully reciprocal right?

Yep. So we can afford to forgo the £450m?

 

[silvertop]

'The absence of catastrophe is not evidence of success.'

I think your argument is still stuck about a decade in the past and completely misrepresents what the economic warnings about Brexit actually were.

Nobody serious was predicting that Britain would become an economic wasteland overnight or that mass unemployment was inevitable. The argument was that leaving the single market and customs union would make us poorer and less productive than we would have otherwise been, and that's exactly what the evidence suggests has happened.

Of course, we can never know precisely what the economy would have looked like had we remained, but that's true of virtually every economic policy decision you could make. The fact that an alternative reality cannot be proven doesn't mean there is no evidence, or that all outcomes are equally plausible.

Blaming remainers for Brexit's failings is just silly at this point - we had a front bench made up specifically of people chosen for their stance on Brexit, all appointed to the key positions for delivering it - it's ridiculous to say that Boris, Patel, Raab, Gove and Rees-Mogg were being held back by a government full of remainers.

At some point, you have to hold the people who campaigned for Brexit and then governed the country through it responsible for what they actually delivered. We're a decade later, we gave a Conservative government dominated by Brexit supporters five years to deliver Brexit... blaming the establishment, remainers and project fear for it's obvious failing is wearing rather thin by now.

Walking along. Somebody warns you of a trip hazard. You ignore them. Trip over. Ouch. Blame the person who warned you.

Of course it's the fault of remainers Brexit failed, or the fault of it's execution or any reason other than the fact that it's failure was inevitable as it was always inately crap.

 

[steeleye20]

The Government and the BBC trumpeting draft Brexit deal on trade.

UK and EU agree draft deal to scrap Brexit red tape over food exports

The food deal, ahead of a UK-EU summit later this month, is the most significant part of the so-called Brexit reset agreed so far.

www.bbc.co.uk

I am not against streamlining trade between the UK and the EU, but typical of the BBC they don't mention what we have to give up in return.

There are multiple agreements being discussed and the government is releasing details of those that make them look good. However until we see the whole deal we don't know if this is a good deal.

I suspect we will end up giving away the family silver.

'I suspect we will end up giving away the family silver'.

That had already been done by Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative Party.

😎

 

[silvertop]

Yep. So we can afford to forgo the £450m?

Of course as can the Germans French Italians et al; and we also have our students returning with degrees languages continental connections and skills that makes us stronger longer term.

I'm sure you have better examples of how much better we are outside the EU.

 

[chris123]

I don't quite see the relevance

Done unilaterally i.e. opened Germanys borders.

 

[Spiderman]

Of course as can the Germans French Italians et al; and we also have our students returning with degrees languages continental connections and skills that makes us stronger longer term.

I'm sure you have better examples of how much better we are outside the EU.

So glad we all have money to burn 👍

 

[steeleye20]

Brexit was generational and millions will have passed on since 2016.

Here is an example of their wisdom:-

'By 24th June 2025 Paris, Frankfurt and Milan will have stagnated, but Leeds and Birmingham will be important financial centres'.

🙂 🙂

 

[Spiderman]

Brexit was generational and millions will have passed on since 2016.

Here is an example of their wisdom:-

'By 24th June 2025 Paris, Frankfurt and Milan will have stagnated, but Leeds and Birmingham will be important financial centres'.

🙂 🙂

Perhaps they should have said by October 2026 Paris and Frankfurt would burn

 

[silvertop]

Done unilaterally i.e. opened Germanys borders.

Yes, I recall the history.

But relevance to the UK being in or out..?

 

[silvertop]

So glad we all have money to burn 👍

Myopic negative-focused post of the year?

 

[chris123]

Perhaps they should have said by October 2026 Paris and Frankfurt would burn

Paris part of euronext and Frankturt have exchanges, not sure about Birmingham, but lots of financal service companies in Leeds

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Lisbon Treaty for me, which I've mentioned to you before, but not sure you answered.

I am not sure I would have done unless I saw the point of you referring to it. Which I don’t now.

 

[chris123]

I am not sure I would have done unless I saw the point of you referring to it. Which I don’t now.

Ok apologies, I thought it was you, my problem with Ĺisbon is it federalises on the quiet. An example would be enshrining the EU to the ECHR, which amazingly is still not enshrined a milliion years late.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Ok apologies, I thought it was you, my problem with Ĺisbon is it federalises on the quiet. An example would be enshrining the EU to the ECHR, which amazingly is still not enshrined a milliion years late.

Evolution often sees missteps along the way which get corrected as their impact is better understood. Maybe this will turn out to be one. Only time will determine that. Nothing is ever going to be perfect when designing a hugely complicated project like the EU but neither does that mean that membership isn’t much better for us than non membership. Our home is in Europe. We belong within the EU, helping to shape and manage it to be equipped for life in the modern world. Not outside pretending we can do better alone and dreaming of past glories.