I totally agree with your first paragraph, unfortunately I cannot see how it will ever work when we are so reluctant to remove.
The Brexit thread
- Topic starter Penge Eagle
- Start date
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
England
A subset who have failed elsewhere where rejection here is automatic and cannot be appealed eases some pressure and accelerates the legal right to remove.
It won't cure illegal immigration. But it is bound to reduce it and free some resources.
Thus good, no?
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
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England
I seem to recall you are ex border force. You will have seen first hand the frustrations of finding them but not being able to hoof them out.
Things may have improved in recent years but the fundamental problem then is the same now. Countries won't take them back.
We have bullied certain countries like DRC and are currently applying the squeeze on Eritrea. But we are largely impotent when it comes to e.g. Bangladesh and Pakistan; and we have had an effective open door policy with India for years.
The Government and the BBC trumpeting draft Brexit deal on trade.
www.bbc.co.uk
I am not against streamlining trade between the UK and the EU, but typical of the BBC they don't mention what we have to give up in return.
There are multiple agreements being discussed and the government is releasing details of those that make them look good. However until we see the whole deal we don't know if this is a good deal.
I suspect we will end up giving away the family silver.
UK and EU agree draft deal to scrap Brexit red tape over food exports
The food deal, ahead of a UK-EU summit later this month, is the most significant part of the so-called Brexit reset agreed so far.
www.bbc.co.uk
I am not against streamlining trade between the UK and the EU, but typical of the BBC they don't mention what we have to give up in return.
There are multiple agreements being discussed and the government is releasing details of those that make them look good. However until we see the whole deal we don't know if this is a good deal.
I suspect we will end up giving away the family silver.
Willo
Member
- Location
- West Sussex - On the coast
- Country
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England
As an 'Arch-Brexiteer' I am 'Spitting nails' at this dastardly Government's moves to align us closer to the disgraceful EU.
I have been in a state of apoplexy and molten with anger.
I have nothing more to add to this discussion as a continuation of my tirade will not do my health any favours.
😡😡😡😡😡
I have been in a state of apoplexy and molten with anger.
I have nothing more to add to this discussion as a continuation of my tirade will not do my health any favours.
😡😡😡😡😡
Is that a yes then 😊
The so called experts claimed it would be a disaster and that this country would have massive unemployment etc. That hasn't happened, whether economically we would have bee better off staying in is pure speculation, you cannot prove it either way.
I am disappointed that especially the Tories did not make the best of the opportunity, but then again many of them and the Civil Service were remainers as was most of big business. So the push back started almost immediately.
It's clear that having lost the establishment is doing it's best to draw us back in.
As I said above I don't have a problem with closer trading ties with the EU, it's what we give up in return.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
-
England
Why dive to worst case scenario?The Government and the BBC trumpeting draft Brexit deal on trade.
UK and EU agree draft deal to scrap Brexit red tape over food exports
The food deal, ahead of a UK-EU summit later this month, is the most significant part of the so-called Brexit reset agreed so far.
I am not against streamlining trade between the UK and the EU, but typical of the BBC they don't mention what we have to give up in return.
There are multiple agreements being discussed and the government is releasing details of those that make them look good. However until we see the whole deal we don't know if this is a good deal.
I suspect we will end up giving away the family silver.
Of course we will give something up. Quid pro quo. Trade. It is what comes out after that balancing that is important.
This is not 2016 where the EU had the whip hand on divorce terms. We have a great deal of leverage on our side as they want us back more than we want to return. Sending a signal to the British electorate that we have to hand over body parts to return will likely scupper the deal.
However, one thought. In 2016 many voted Leave as it rode on the coat tails of the North African migrant crisis. However, what caused me concern was that it also followed Russia's invasion of Crimea.
I am more than aware that NATO is not EU and it is a point done to death elsewhere. However, I genuinely believed (and still do) that the cross border security and diplomatic synergy we used to enjoy inside the tent was critical at that time of international insecurity. That is one of the principal reasons I voted Remain. And undoubtedly a principal reason why the Russians sought (albeit without success) to interfere in favour of Leave.
What weight that argument now?
chris123
Member
- Location
- hove actually
- Country
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England
But you can point at France and Germany, both fractured politically and financially. More than speculation I'd suggest.
steeleye20
Member
- Location
- Croydon
- Country
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England
Canada to join the EU as an associate member, the first ever, in 2027.
Goodbye Trump, or good riddance in that case, and hello Ursula.
'This will be permanent', their joint statement.
😎
Goodbye Trump, or good riddance in that case, and hello Ursula.
'This will be permanent', their joint statement.
😎
chris123
Member
- Location
- hove actually
- Country
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England
I was thinking of Angela Merkel in 2015, open border to a million.
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
No, it's delivered virtually no upsides at all.
Wisbech Eagle
Member
- Location
- Truro Cornwall
- Country
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England
The so called experts have been proven unequivocably correct then, haven't they? I see no benefits at all from Brexit other than satisfying the xenophobia of a minority.
It makes me laugh when the primary motivation of so many who voted to leave was to reduce immigration and yet we have not only see that increase but that the sources we now use are not those they prefer.
It's been a disaster on every level, for everyone involved, including the EU. Of course they too have significant issues at the moment but we would still be much better off being a member than not. Fortunately our politicians are, on balance, more sensible and realistic than most of the posters here. With notable, but largely insignifcant and fading, exceptions.
chris123
Member
- Location
- hove actually
- Country
-
England
Lisbon Treaty for me, which I've mentioned to you before, but not sure you answered.
Giving up £450m to allow EU students to pay home student fees for starters. How many will repay the loans? Perhaps my kids should stop laying theirs
CPFCSaturn
Member
- Country
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England
'The absence of catastrophe is not evidence of success.'
I think your argument is still stuck about a decade in the past and completely misrepresents what the economic warnings about Brexit actually were.
Nobody serious was predicting that Britain would become an economic wasteland overnight or that mass unemployment was inevitable. The argument was that leaving the single market and customs union would make us poorer and less productive than we would have otherwise been, and that's exactly what the evidence suggests has happened.
Of course, we can never know precisely what the economy would have looked like had we remained, but that's true of virtually every economic policy decision you could make. The fact that an alternative reality cannot be proven doesn't mean there is no evidence, or that all outcomes are equally plausible.
Blaming remainers for Brexit's failings is just silly at this point - we had a front bench made up specifically of people chosen for their stance on Brexit, all appointed to the key positions for delivering it - it's ridiculous to say that Boris, Patel, Raab, Gove and Rees-Mogg were being held back by a government full of remainers.
At some point, you have to hold the people who campaigned for Brexit and then governed the country through it responsible for what they actually delivered. We're a decade later, we gave a Conservative government dominated by Brexit supporters five years to deliver Brexit... blaming the establishment, remainers and project fear for it's obvious failing is wearing rather thin by now.
Mark B
Member
- Country
USA
I have a question for you, when did the EU ratify CETA that was signed in 2016?
And now show me the trade between Canada-EU and Canada-US.
You live in a fantasy land if you think the EU is going to replace the US with trade.
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
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England
Depends who you ask
So presumably will need a new name? Any country wanting to join that shitshow needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Still with Carney leading, nothing is a surprise.
Freedom of movement? Canadians are in for a big shock