So, how many on here would agree?

[Glazier#1]

The issue isn't what we call people. the issue is that it matters what we call people. Who cares what we call someone so long as we treat everyone with the same level of respect.

However, My respect for someone can be reduced if they, for example, claim unwarranted government benefits in the Same way that it'd reduce if they identified as an Iguana. And No, I'm not saying that all Therian(had to google that!) people are benefit cheats!

So, is someone feels disrespected if they're trans gender and someone, such as in that meeting, insists upon calling them 'Mr', they're just being a snowflake? The problem lies with the named rather than the namer; is that your pointCB?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I wouldn't go out of my way to insult anyone - probably just more to do with innate English/Irish politeness more than anything else.
As for overall, I believe some people may be trans but not as many as there seem to be these days. I know that in primary schools gender is a major issue these days, and I can't help but feel it's either fashionable or basically confusing for young people.
I remember in the eighties my Mum's boss was a transvestite (as they were known then) who wore women's clothes and a wig etc. Although we were all working class, average people, none of us minded and just treated him/ her as we did anyone else.
In short, is this all being blown well out of proportion?

I think that’s a very reasonable and reassuringly honest approach.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

The transgender issue is simple for me. If you want to believe that you are a woman then great, but don't expect anyone else to believe it.
Furthermore, transgenders should not be able to use women's facilities or play women's sports. That is an infringement of women's rights.
The law might say a transgender is a woman, but that cannot remove the inalienable right of free thinking.
The whole issue is blown out of proportion by activists making the lives of the average transgender more difficult that it already is.

Not the point.

No one should expect anyone else to believe anything. That’s for them alone.

It isn’t though what you believe that matters. It’s how you behave. If someone else believes something different and has requested they be addressed in a certain way then not to do so is being deliberately disrespectful.

The issue of public toilet provision is unrelated. It demands the balancing of competing rights, for which there is no one simple solution. Multi sex provision being the ultimate solution.

I saw a neat and affective answer last week in Hamburg. There were two toilet types. One were urinals, screened from view after passing a common entrance, and closets. Men were directed into the urinal area but everyone could access the closets. It worked.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I don't know but didn't someone get a knock on the door by police?

Yep, some nutjob wasted Police time with that one.

 

[Glazier#1]

Yep, some nutjob wasted Police time with that one.

Are you writing that it was you?

If so, what were the circumstances? If it was on here I missed

 

[Stirlingsays]

Are you writing that it was you?

If so, what were the circumstances. If it was on here I missed

I'm not sure I want to re-tread all that old ground.

 

[Glazier#1]

I'm not sure I want to re-tread all that old ground.

I understand but, really, I'm fascinated to know what precipitated this 'visit'. Was it for something written on these pages?

 

[Stirlingsays]

I understand but, really, I'm fascinated to know what precipitated this 'visit'. Was it for something written on these pages?

People can get very upset on forums and get ideas about people that don't always correspond to reality. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Who knows why? maybe they might have said something in private, or maybe because they aren't bothered, or maybe they've heard it so many times, they have to inure themselves to it.

A question: if someone, in your company, publicly called a black person the 'N' word, would you publicly protest at such behaviour or would you think that to do so would be mounting a 'high horse'.?

Oh, by the way, I love your posts on Palace talk. I always look out for them.

Of course if my friend was visibly hurt or offended I would have something to say.

But the fella in this clip, his rant was clearly for the camera’s and looked like it was more embarrassing to the transgender than any possible slip up by who the rant was directed at
If it wasn’t a slip up and he does have a problem with transgenders and refuses to acknowledge her as a woman, the rant was still highly embarrassing for the transgender involved

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

One of the refuse collectors that visits our road once a week, is a male to female trans-g. I just call it 'mate', as in "thanks for taking the extra rubbish this week, mate". He wears make-up at work, and is a bit of a local celebrity when off-duty. I find it difficult to refer to it as 'her', but i do it to avoid any unnecessary hassle for either of us. It takes some getting used to , but I suppose that's my hoop to jump through, and actually she's pleasant enough to talk to, so why go looking to upset her when she's "local"?

 

[eaglesdare]

Who knows why? maybe they might have said something in private, or maybe because they aren't bothered, or maybe they've heard it so many times, they have to inure themselves to it.

A question: if someone, in your company, publicly called a black person the 'N' word, would you publicly protest at such behaviour or would you think that to do so would be mounting a 'high horse'.?

Oh, by the way, I love your posts on Palace talk. I always look out for them.

Would this person also be black? They seem to be the only people that use that word these days.

 

[Glazier#1]

One of the refuse collectors that visits our road once a week, is a male to female trans-g. I just call it 'mate', as in "thanks for taking the extra rubbish this week, mate". He wears make-up at work, and is a bit of a local celebrity when off-duty. I find it difficult to refer to it as 'her', but i do it to avoid any unnecessary hassle for either of us. It takes some getting used to , but I suppose that's my hoop to jump through, and actually she's pleasant enough to talk to, so why go looking to upset her when she's "local"?

I know what you mean. What to call presents people with difficulty.

I think using 'them' is how it's usually handled. So "I just call it 'mate'" can be " "I just call them 'mate'" without too much hassle.

 

[Glazier#1]

Of course if my friend was visibly hurt or offended I would have something to say.

But the fella in this clip, his rant was clearly for the camera’s and looked like it was more embarrassing to the transgender than any possible slip up by who the rant was directed at
If it wasn’t a slip up and he does have a problem with transgenders and refuses to acknowledge her as a woman, the rant was still highly embarrassing for the transgender involved

Actually I agree with you. The way it was handled here, the rant was the thing that stands out and can come across as over the top. I think, tactically, it's naive too. Far better to ask "Did you just refer to them as Mr? Would you like to change that?" If the answer was "No", then it's better to leave an eloquent silence, let the watchers come their own conclusion and move on.
Oh, it wasn't a slip, it was a public position.

 

[Glazier#1]

Would this person also be black? They seem to be the only people that use that word these days.

The thinking behind it is to 'reclaim' the language, I suppose. It happened with the word 'Queer' as well.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Which activists? Those who are publicly against it or those who are publicly for it?

I think Mr Relf was grandstanding.

I would imagine that the average transgender person just wants to get on with their life as best they can.

A noisy minority think they can speak on behalf of all transgenders and create a whole load of noise around the subject.
We have a whole load of people bleating about the rights of various groups and, as one might expect, the rights claimed by one such group will often conflict with another.
I would champion the rights of any group so long as upholding their rights does not deny others theirs.
In this case, the group that are being disadvantaged are biological women. In other words, half the population. That cannot be reasonable.

 

[Glazier#1]

I would imagine that the average transgender person just wants to get on with their life as best they can.

A noisy minority think they can speak on behalf of all transgenders and create a whole load of noise around the subject.
We have a whole load of people bleating about the rights of various groups and, as one might expect, the rights claimed by one such group will often conflict with another.
I would champion the rights of any group so long as upholding their rights does not deny others theirs.
In this case, the group that are being disadvantaged are biological women. In other words, half the population. That cannot be reasonable.

Huh? I don't understand.

I suppose, by that token, the male gender is disadvantaged by gay men.

Have I got it wrong?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Huh? I don't understand.

I suppose, by that token, the male gender is disadvantaged by gay men.

Have I got it wrong?

You certainly have.
How are men in general disadvantaged by gay men?
What has that to do with the transgender issue?

 

[Glazier#1]

You certainly have.
How are men in general disadvantaged by gay men?
What has that to do with the transgender issue?

Right. Thanks.

Help me understand, please.

"I would champion the rights of any group so long as upholding their rights does not deny others theirs.
In this case, the group that are being disadvantaged are biological women. In other words, half the population. That cannot be reasonable."

In what way are women being disadvantaged by transgender people?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Right. Thanks.

Help me understand, please.

"I would champion the rights of any group so long as upholding their rights does not deny others theirs.
In this case, the group that are being disadvantaged are biological women. In other words, half the population. That cannot be reasonable."

In what way are women being disadvantaged by transgender people?

I'll assume you really don't know.

The three most obvious examples are in sport while having to compete against transgenders. In relation to safe spaces for women, and the sanctity of what it is to be a woman.
Women have fought for their rights in a largely male dominated world and now they're having their very sexual identity undermined.

Please don't ask me any more questions. Just tell me what you think, or don't waste my time.

 

[Glazier#1]

I'll assume you really don't know.

The three most obvious examples are in sport while having to compete against transgenders. In relation to safe spaces for women, and the sanctity of what it is to be a woman.
Women have fought for their rights in a largely male dominated world and now they're having their very sexual identity undermined.

Please don't ask me any more questions. Just tell me what you think, or don't waste my time.

'Please don't ask me any more questions. Just tell me what you think, or don't waste my time.' Haha Lefty's errand boy.

You are right to assume I really don't know. Thanks for the clarification.

'Women have fought for their rights in a largely male dominated world and now they're having their very sexual identity undermined.'

Careful now; you're sounding like a looney leftie.

Not sure how many women feel their sexual identity is undermined, to be honest. In what way do you mean?

Have there been any transgender sportswomen who've competed in the Olympics? I don't recall any. The Algerian boxer was not transgender, was she? I understood she was found to have an unusually high amount of testosterone in a woman. Am I mistaken?

PS: I did give some of my own thoughts on the transgender issue earlier. Did you not see?