Hrolf The Ganger
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So, how many on here would agree?
- Topic starter Glazier#1
- Start date
You mean you are unable to clarify.
I can't see how either of those question are 'Stupid'. It's called discussion. What's the point of making points that you are unable to clarify, Rolf?
It seems that the only time you're not bored is when everyone agrees with each other.
Oh well.
Incidentally, I see that a number of sports bodies have adopted updated policies, including those that surround the transgender debate. I read this:
'The IOC insisted this week that no scientific or political consensus exists on gender and fairness issues. It gave updated guidance to sports governing bodies in 2021.
Several sports bodies have updated their eligibility rules since the Tokyo Olympics were held in 2021, including World Aquatics, World Athletics and the International Cycling Union. They all decided to bar athletes from women’s events who have transitioned from male to female and went through male puberty.
World Athletics also tightened rules last year to include testosterone testing for some athletes legally identified as female at birth though with a medical condition that leads to some male traits.'
Ref:
Who is Olympian Imane Khelif? An Algerian woman boxer is facing gender backlash
Khelif was assigned female at birth, but was disqualified from the 2023 world championships after failing unspecified and untransparent eligibility tests for women's competition from the now-banned International Boxing Association.
www.pbs.org
Goodnight.
Hrolf The Ganger
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England
So you have no opinions?You mean you are unable to clarify.
I can't see how either of those question are 'Stupid'. It's called discussion. What's the point of making points that you are unable to clarify, Rolf?
It seems that the only time you're not bored is when everyone agrees with each other.
Oh well.
Incidentally, I see that a number of sports bodies have adopted updated policies, including those that surround the transgender debate. I read this:
'The IOC insisted this week that no scientific or political consensus exists on gender and fairness issues. It gave updated guidance to sports governing bodies in 2021.
Several sports bodies have updated their eligibility rules since the Tokyo Olympics were held in 2021, including World Aquatics, World Athletics and the International Cycling Union. They all decided to bar athletes from women’s events who have transitioned from male to female and went through male puberty.
World Athletics also tightened rules last year to include testosterone testing for some athletes legally identified as female at birth though with a medical condition that leads to some male traits.'
Ref:
Who is Olympian Imane Khelif? An Algerian woman boxer is facing gender backlash
Khelif was assigned female at birth, but was disqualified from the 2023 world championships after failing unspecified and untransparent eligibility tests for women's competition from the now-banned International Boxing Association.
Goodnight.
The sporting bodies are responding to the backlash against former men competing in women's sport.
That is why people have to stand up to absurdity.
Do you agree with that, or do you want to ask some more stupid questions?
What I will say is that that last sentence was a question. Written because you want to know. That is why I ask questions of you: because I want to know not only what you think, what ideas you have but why you think and feel that way. Why? Because I'm the sort of person who needs to get his head around a subject in order to understand it better.
Your comment about former men competing in women's sport made me curious because I like my sport and really can't recall where or when that occurred. I remember Renee Richards and there was much bugling around Imane Khelif at the Paris Olympics but can't think of any others. That is important. If there is a "backlash" that must mean it's happened before or even that it has happened a lot.
I'm starting this paragraph an hour after finishing the last because I started Googling and there is a lot about the issue and incidences in US college sports but not as much in the UK.
Whilst Googling, I found this. The way much of the language is framed in this piece will grate on a good few, I'll admit. However, I had a good read so I can mull the subject over some more. It's a thorny one.
Trans Inclusion & Women’s Sport
In September 2021, Women in Sport, issued a response to the Sports Councils’ extensive study into the issue of trans inclusion in sport. This high-quality report included a comprehensive review of the…
womeninsport.org
Stirlingsays
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England
For most on the right this isn't really a debate issue, there is near full consensus amongst all its fractions.....in fact it's one of the few issues where you will find that.
It's much more a debate issue for the left, because while for many on the left it's a principle 'hill' that many of them are willing to die on, it's also a vote loser for them.
Huge amounts of money has been spent over a decade and a half on both getting lawmakers and corporations to change laws and huge amounts spent on propagandising Joe Public on a transgender (transhumanism) cultural shift.....and in Europe at least that continues to be the case.
However, it failed in America, which is now changing tact, and while they managed to shift the needle a little amongst the confused youth and mentally ill adults, essentially the mass majority remain steadfastly against the concept.....natural law won out against positive law.
It's much more a debate issue for the left, because while for many on the left it's a principle 'hill' that many of them are willing to die on, it's also a vote loser for them.
Huge amounts of money has been spent over a decade and a half on both getting lawmakers and corporations to change laws and huge amounts spent on propagandising Joe Public on a transgender (transhumanism) cultural shift.....and in Europe at least that continues to be the case.
However, it failed in America, which is now changing tact, and while they managed to shift the needle a little amongst the confused youth and mentally ill adults, essentially the mass majority remain steadfastly against the concept.....natural law won out against positive law.
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Forest Hillbilly
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And really it boils down to blokes using female toilets and changing rooms. That's where the infringement upon women is felt, that they should feel at risk in a supposedly secure environment.
A bloke with severe psychological problems is allowed into facilities where women undress and do toilet things. To me, that's not right. The Trans might feel at risk in male facilities, but that's no reason to shift the risk onto women, girls and children
A bloke with severe psychological problems is allowed into facilities where women undress and do toilet things. To me, that's not right. The Trans might feel at risk in male facilities, but that's no reason to shift the risk onto women, girls and children
Hrolf The Ganger
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So if I understand that correctly, there is a demonstrable advantage for transgenders and yet it is suggested that they should still be included? Perhaps I misunderstood.What I will say is that that last sentence was a question. Written because you want to know. That is why I ask questions of you: because I want to know not only what you think, what ideas you have but why you think and feel that way. Why? Because I'm the sort of person who needs to get his head around a subject in order to understand it better.
Your comment about former men competing in women's sport made me curious because I like my sport and really can't recall where or when that occurred. I remember Renee Richards and there was much bugling around Imane Khelif at the Paris Olympics but can't think of any others. That is important. If there is a "backlash" that must mean it's happened before or even that it has happened a lot.
I'm starting this paragraph an hour after finishing the last because I started Googling and there is a lot about the issue and incidences in US college sports but not as much in the UK.
Whilst Googling, I found this. The way much of the language is framed in this piece will grate on a good few, I'll admit. However, I had a good read so I can mull the subject over some more. It's a thorny one.
Trans Inclusion & Women’s Sport
In September 2021, Women in Sport, issued a response to the Sports Councils’ extensive study into the issue of trans inclusion in sport. This high-quality report included a comprehensive review of the…
It seems to me that these people want to try and pander to everyone to avoid controversy.
Another example of politics over common sense.
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Wisbech Eagle
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Trying to divide this by left and right politics is fatuous. It just isn’t as attitudes vary across political spectrums. You have only to read this thread to see that.
That some on the culturally ignorant right get so wound up by the way others are different says much more about them than it does about their targets.
That this is so clearly visible in the USA is indicative of this. The USA has always been culturally behind Europe by a wide margin. You can debate why, but not that it is. The evidence that stares you in the face, from the behaviour of the President down, the ignorance is appalling at times.
That this is trumpeted by the far right here as a success just shows them in their true colours. Natural law allows the process of evolution to gently proceed. Trying to use man’s laws to stop it is the work of Luddites.
At first I thought that but, upon re-reading, I think they're saying that there is, indeed, an advantage to be gained. However, they still believe a way should be found so that Trans can compete in sport, even if excluded within women's sport. That's how I read it.
To be honest, I wonder if that is a scenario that is difficult to cater for. How will it be achieved? Trans games? I don't know.
*Interesting the verb you use there: pander. How about the verb include? I, for one, think it's good that people try to be caring and inclusive. They admit to the advantage gained.
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I wish I could be so sure what constitutes 'Natural law'. You're a lucky man/God who is so certain of what that is.
Stirlingsays
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If you have access to the Internet, which you obviously do they are easy philosophical concepts to research.
Just stick natural law into Grok and read, and then do the same for positive law.
Sport needs to be encouraged to hold a third "open" category men / women/ ? whatever. It is then up to the public as to what they support. Commercially it will be a tough sale but if the Open category throws up personalities that is what the public latch onto.
There are other benefits. On a number of occasions golf (and some other sports) has parachuted a female player into a men's competition bypassing the qualifying requirements so discriminating against better men who didn't qualify.
An Open contest does away with that as you can set the qualifying rules for all.
Yup. So good to see someone coming out with some ideas for inclusion rather than sitting on their immaculate throne and sending down divine judgement. 👍
Hrolf The Ganger
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Precisely.
The obvious solution would be to have a trans category where necessary, although I'd be surprised if there were many competitors.
I use the word 'pander' because I'm certain that much of this is about appearances rather than any heartfelt desire to be inclusive. They don't want activists making a negative noise around it.
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Stirlingsays
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England
No trans category, it's a complete nonsense as there are too few and you end up spunking loads on lower level competitors who would very rarely reach these finals in their own sex categories.....most small shows can't afford that crap.
It's just more attention seeking for the mentalists.
It's just more attention seeking for the mentalists.
Hrolf The Ganger
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And that would be why the issue might take care of itself.
Stirlingsays
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If common sense ruled.
Hrolf The Ganger
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I suspect that most candidates might be less keen if they don't have the advantage of competing against biological women.
Wisbech Eagle
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It doesn’t have anything to do with any god! Not for me anyway.
It’s more about the common human morality and ethics that can be found in most societies and which serve to guide acceptable behaviour standards. These gradually evolve as we evolve. That some choose to remain on the path which leads to eventual extinction and not on the one that eventually is shown to be dominant is inevitable.
Transworld Sports would be a very different programme.