Sentences too harsh!

[cryrst]

The jailing of many people for both violent, verbal and internet ‘crime’ in relation to the recent protests is imo very wrong. Talking to my mrs she maybe rightly noted that for years many have been calling for action on bad behaviour and law breaking and now it’s done we still aren’t happy; noting the 3000 odd who lost their front doors after the mark duggan riots.
That being said the 2 tier approach on who gets nicked seems very evident for all to see ref a certain ‘type’ not getting their comeuppance.
That being said I do wonder if the precedent set is in preparation for potentially more disturbances which might happen when this lot start imposing draconian green laws, tax rises and basic reduction of liberties. A sort of threat with real examples.
I Probably have not explained it very well but hope you get my drift!

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

The jailing of many people for both violent, verbal and internet ‘crime’ in relation to the recent protests is imo very wrong. Talking to my mrs she maybe rightly noted that for years many have been calling for action on bad behaviour and law breaking and now it’s done we still aren’t happy; noting the 3000 odd who lost their front doors after the mark duggan riots.
That being said the 2 tier approach on who gets nicked seems very evident for all to see ref a certain ‘type’ not getting their comeuppance.
That being said I do wonder if the precedent set is in preparation for potentially more disturbances which might happen when this lot start imposing draconian green laws, tax rises and basic reduction of liberties. A sort of threat with real examples.
I Probably have not explained it very well but hope you get my drift!

The yobs who caused all that damage deserved harsh sentences and, you're probably right cryst, a warning in case of more 'troubles'.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

The thing is, the Government and Judiciary are meant to function as two separate entities, with no influence , or overlap, on each other.
just my opinion, and the way the sentencing has been covered, they do seem unduly harsh. A lot of those convicted had had the additional 'race' element included, which might explain the lengthy sentences.
However, posting those accused and convicted address (not house number) in the mainstream media seems likely to incite further 'action' against those, and their families.
You just cannot ignore the political influence on sentencing, when it's being fanfared in the press.
It may be that some of them appeal against the sentence, but then that might also attract more unwanted media coverage for them.
Could be seen as a bit sinister

 

[cryrst]

The yobs who caused all that damage deserved harsh sentences and, you're probably right cryst, a warning in case of more 'troubles'.

My issue isn’t necessarily about the violent and some I’ve read historic trouble causing idiots. It’s about the internet offence sentences. Maybe they too have history but one in particular was the councillors mrs who miss quoted and posted inaccurate info about the Southport murderer.
That said my concern is what is coming for very normal, no previous history of law breaking people who may rightly disagree about further changes ref my list prior; not being able to vent their ‘anger’ at the decisions. That is a great concern as many millions might be unhappy and just have to suck it up.

 

[kevlee]

Judges too harsh?
The judges who heard these cases were the most senior judges in the cities affected. Recorder of Liverpool. Sheffield etc.
I agree that some of the online offences seem harsh but people who physically assault the services should be jailed and anyone who sets fire to a building with people inside deserves a multiple years jail sentence.
This was a mob situation and these judges dispense justice in their cities day in day out.
No complaints from me.

 

[HKOwen]

The focus will be on the sentences given to the Manchester police attackers who inflicted injuries worse than those sentenced so far from the riots.

I assume they will be charged and found guilty of course so not a certainty

 

[cryrst]

The focus will be on the sentences given to the Manchester police attackers who inflicted injuries worse than those sentenced so far from the riots.

I assume they will be charged and found guilty of course so not a certainty

That was in my thoughts but not posted as I have before. The previous poster agrees that the internet sentences may have been harsh so middle ground on that I guess.
Again though my concern is going forwards basically does this ban protests and if it is for that then ALL protests shouldn’t be allowed. Left and right leaning.

 

[cryrst]

Judges too harsh?
The judges who heard these cases were the most senior judges in the cities affected. Recorder of Liverpool. Sheffield etc.
I agree that some of the online offences seem harsh but people who physically assault the services should be jailed and anyone who sets fire to a building with people inside deserves a multiple years jail sentence.
This was a mob situation and these judges dispense justice in their cities day in day out.
No complaints from me.

The judges coming from the areas affected means that their sentencing could, and I say could be swayed due to this. You know a sort of NIMBY response. That in itself would sway their outcome and decision. Maybe the judges should have been from different areas so a bit more concentration on the crime not where it was commited.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

My issue isn’t necessarily about the violent and some I’ve read historic trouble causing idiots. It’s about the internet offence sentences. Maybe they too have history but one in particular was the councillors mrs who miss quoted and posted inaccurate info about the Southport murderer.
That said my concern is what is coming for very normal, no previous history of law breaking people who may rightly disagree about further changes ref my list prior; not being able to vent their ‘anger’ at the decisions. That is a great concern as many millions might be unhappy and just have to suck it up.

If your concern is about those with no previous feeling intimidated into not criticising government policy then I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

There is always, and will continue to be, plenty of criticism, both in the MSM and online. Encouraging peaceful protests will not attract any attention.

Problems only occur when violence is encouraged or supported. Inciting others is a crime. It doesn’t matter at all what the issue is. We all care deeply about different things. Making our feelings known is part of democracy. Violence, or encouraging violence, in the pursuit of them, is not.

 

[eaglesdare]

Testing the ignore button.

Edit. Blimey that worked well!

 

[georgenorman]

Testing the ignore button.

Edit. Blimey that worked well!

Same here! Gives you a sense of relief - like getting a painful splinter out of your finger.

 

[cryrst]

If your concern is about those with no previous feeling intimidated into not criticising government policy then I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

There is always, and will continue to be, plenty of criticism, both in the MSM and online. Encouraging peaceful protests will not attract any attention.

Problems only occur when violence is encouraged or supported. Inciting others is a crime. It doesn’t matter at all what the issue is. We all care deeply about different things. Making our feelings known is part of democracy. Violence, or encouraging violence, in the pursuit of them, is not.

None of this is what I’m actually pointing out directly. If 2TK brings in new policies which directly affect the masses should they just suck it up as protest is being stopped by fear of getting jailed. Sometimes the human safety valve goes on the meekest of people.

 

[georgenorman]

Bernadette Spofforth is currently on bail awaiting trial for 'spreading false information'. She tweeted the internet rumour that the perpetrator of the Southport atrocity was a certain person with a particular background, although she did state "if this is true". It transpired that the killer was not that person and Spofforth admits and regrets her mistake and condemns the recent disturbances.

Meanwhile, Nick Lowles, head of Hope not Hate published online the fake information that a muslim woman in Middleborough had acid thrown at her by white men in a car. Lowles has not been arrested and charged. His far-left organisation, hilariously self-described as a "non-partisan, non-sectarian organisation" enjoys tax advantages as a registered charity.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Bernadette Spofforth is currently on bail awaiting trial for 'spreading false information'. She tweeted the internet rumour that the perpetrator of the Southport atrocity was a certain person with a particular background, although she did state "if this is true". It transpired that the killer was not that person and Spofforth admits and regrets her mistake and condemns the recent disturbances.

Meanwhile, Nick Lowles, head of Hope not Hate published online the fake information that a muslim woman in Middleborough had acid thrown at her by white men in a car. Lowles has not been arrested and charged. His far-left organisation, hilariously self-described as a "non-partisan, non-sectarian organisation" enjoys tax advantages as a registered charity.

Two tier.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I will have to report this thread. Not just to the Moderators, but also to the police, because there seems to be a bit of a mob gathering here, that didn't seek prior permission to congregate from The Authorities.

Someone seems likely to say something offensive, and they might even be thinking about it right now.
So before any Authority action, I first need to publish all contributors names and addresses in the mainstream media 👍

 

[becky]

I will have to report this thread. Not just to the Moderators, but also to the police, because there seems to be a bit of a mob gathering here, that didn't seek prior permission to congregate from The Authorities.

Someone seems likely to say something offensive, and they might even be thinking about it right now.
So before any Authority action, I first need to publish all contributors names and addresses in the mainstream media 👍

I hope that list will include your own..... then don't complain when they all turn up on your doorstep for a free beer or a handout Don't Rush Too quickly into this 😁

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

None of this is what I’m actually pointing out directly. If 2TK brings in new policies which directly affect the masses should they just suck it up as protest is being stopped by fear of getting jailed. Sometimes the human safety valve goes on the meekest of people.

The only new policies that are likely to be introduced will affect the social media platforms themselves and not the users. Existing laws are sufficient to protect people from being the victims of incitement. They are simply now being applied more vigorously. The platforms though need to do more to control content that encourages hatred.

No one need fear discussing any issue, or attending, or encouraging the attendance of, any protest, unless violence is a clear objective. That’s not illegal.

Even the meekest of people need to be able to show self restraint and control themselves. Whilst ignorance of the law is no defence, the current sentencing should serve as a lesson to them, just as it is to everyone.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Bernadette Spofforth is currently on bail awaiting trial for 'spreading false information'. She tweeted the internet rumour that the perpetrator of the Southport atrocity was a certain person with a particular background, although she did state "if this is true". It transpired that the killer was not that person and Spofforth admits and regrets her mistake and condemns the recent disturbances.

Meanwhile, Nick Lowles, head of Hope not Hate published online the fake information that a muslim woman in Middleborough had acid thrown at her by white men in a car. Lowles has not been arrested and charged. His far-left organisation, hilariously self-described as a "non-partisan, non-sectarian organisation" enjoys tax advantages as a registered charity.

I would hope that any decent defence lawyer would be able to convince the Judge that this was a genuine mistake. In fact the CPS may withdraw it, if what’s described is all true. If she did nothing but post a mistake the case should be dismissed. Only if she encouraged violence as a consequence would a custody sentence be appropriate.

I haven’t read what Nick Lowles wrote (there is nothing on their website) but if what is suggested is true, then a simple correction is all that is required. Posting mistakes happen. It’s not the disinformation itself which is illegal. It’s any actions which are incited that are.

 

[orpingtoneagle]

For too long people have been able to use social media and believe that they can say anything without consequences.

That has to change as social media is a powerful tool for both good and bad.

If we view it as a form of journalism (and plenty of social media folks do view themselves as journalists,) If a newspaper published say an incitment to riot then there would be consequences.

There have to be consequences for idiots using social media. Maybe this could be solved by regulatory process in other industries but I do not see any appetite for regulation here.

Are the sentences too harsh?.Maybe but I note a lot of those currently saying that are the same that have been saying for years the justice system is too soft.

 

[georgenorman]

We are moving towards a grim, dystopic future, many people are now afraid to raise their voices in objection in case they are subjected to police harassment.