Reform

[Stirlingsays]

Farage has consistently stated he wants to see the 'Death' of the Conservative Party.
Jacob Rees-Mogg has a desire for the 'Right' to unite.

Farage says a lot of things.

If you take everything at face value....

But if you watch what he's actually doing it's obvious.

Mogg is mostly a good man, but the problem he has is that the Tories are still clogged up with social liberals and won't change. The Tories would like nothing better for Farage to disappear and for us to be stuck with the Rishi Sunaks' and Camerons' and Mays' of this world.

They were forced into change...and the change has been tiny.....it wasn't done willingly and given a sniff they would move right back into wokeville.

 

[ASCPFC]

In terms of the last government there are some very fair grievances.Losing a sense of what the party stands for, the ability to deliver on a promise, not being ‘Conservatives’, the habit even revelry in ‘blue on blue’ infighting. These are all issues us Conservatives have kept firmly in mind and accepted.

Learning from past mistakes is part of the recovery process.

In the last election people voted for Labour due to them not being as bad or worse than the Tories. Although Labour are just as bad, as far as I can tell, everyone's had enough of the pair of them. Not as bad as the other is no longer valid. People want an actual change. Not sure they'll get it, but neither Labour or Conservative are offering anything different.

 

[Willo]

It's gone.

But you can't let go.

I am 'Au Fait' with activities behind the scenes, I contribute to the 'Policy Renewal Programme'.I am a member of CPF (Conservative Policy Forum).
The Conservative Party has taken the first step in the UK’s biggest policy renewal programme in 50 years.

 

[Stirlingsays]

In the last election people voted for Labour due to them not being as bad or worse than the Tories. Although Labour are just as bad, as far as I can tell, everyone's had enough of the pair of them. Not as bad as the other is no longer valid. People want an actual change. Not sure they'll get it, but neither Labour or Conservative are offering anything different.

Yet, the Tories legacy as the uniparty can be summed up with both the covid madness and the online safety bill.....The Tories went after Tommy Robinson more than Labour! They brought in more immigration than Labour! They did zero about woke, did nothing about the civil service (even though Cummings tried).

It's the same party.....just a bunch of lying careerists. I'll never forget them standing behind Mr 'Diversity built Britain' Sunak.

The real right in the Tory party should defect.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Absolutely NOT present.

I am advised Reform handed its main stage to a gentleman who has made his name peddling conspiracy theories. He has suggested that Covid vaccines were linked to cancer in the Royal Family.Reform’s chairman, David Bull, who believes in ghosts, introduced him warmly, telling delegates that himself and the gentleman had written Reform’s health policy. More theatre of delusions than theatre of dreams.

Whilst your criticism of Reform, its policies and its behaviour are all valid it’s not so long ago I recall you saying you met Farage at a Tory conference and being impressed by him.

There is only one way back for the Tories. They must become fiscally conservative whilst socially liberal Thus clearly differentiating themselves from Reform, who are extremely socially illiberal.

The UK cannot sustain its debt for much longer and unless we change course we are going to be forced to by the IMF. We need to vastly increase our tax revenue, not necessarily by increasing taxes but mainly by increasing tax take through increased activity. More people working, working longer and harder and removing people from benefits they don’t need.

Doing that whilst continuing to recognise diversity and supporting everyone to be themselves will show a caring nature. Tough love is needed but it’s still love and not the hatred that underlies Reform.

 

[Willo]

Farage says a lot of things.

If you take everything at face value....

But if you watch what he's actually doing it's obvious.

Mogg is mostly a good man, but the problem he has is that the Tories are still clogged up with social liberals and won't change. The Tories would like nothing better for Farage to disappear and for us to be stuck with the Rishi Sunaks' and Camerons' and Mays' of this world.

They were forced into change...and the change has been tiny.....it wasn't done willingly and given a sniff they would move right back into wokeville.

I was at a gathering only the other day and not one could be categorised as a 'Social Liberal'.
We were all on the 'Right' of the party.

 

[Willo]

Yet, the Tories legacy as the uniparty can be summed up with both the covid madness and the online safety bill.....The Tories went after Tommy Robinson more than Labour! They brought in more immigration than Labour! They did zero about woke, did nothing about the civil service (even though Cummings tried).

It's the same party.....just a bunch of lying careerists. I'll never forget them standing behind Mr 'Diversity built Britain' Sunak.

The real right in the Tory party should defect.

With the utmost respect this is hogwash on steroids.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I am 'Au Fait' with activities behind the scenes, I contribute to the 'Policy Renewal Programme'.I am a member of CPF (Conservative Policy Forum).
The Conservative Party has taken the first step in the UK’s biggest policy renewal programme in 50 years.

You're a good guy Willo.

But I think it's a case of still thinking the Titanic is going to stay afloat.

Most of the right wing youth are in Reform......demographics is destiny.....The Tories left it way way too late.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I was at a gathering only the other day and not one could be categorised as a 'Social Liberal'.
We were all on the 'Right' of the party.

Like I said, when given power the Tories showed who they really were.

There are examples of Tory ministers calling themselves social liberals....these were the people in power and elected from within the party.

And look at what these 'Tories' did in government....censorship and got rid of none of the woke stuff.....added to it if anything.

Being on the 'right' means nothing in the Tory party, you only have to look at who they elect to lead it.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Yeah, what we should do is vote for the Tories......

What the Tories did to this county is disgusting.....they brought in woke, called themselves social liberals....they promoted leftists to head institutions....they lied about everything in manifestos. Immigration went up and up. They brought in around a million immigrants a year....all against what they were elected to do... But you'd vote for them forever.

Most of the people on the politics forum don't agree with what the Tories did with covid and here you are talking about conspiracy theories when the Tory government censored people saying the virus came from a lab!

They literally operated 'nudge' units to gaslight the general public.

Spend wartime amounts of money on reducing the economy over a virus with less than a 2 percent kill rate, when the consequences were little different to Sweden who didn't do that......Massive financial burden for nothing.....all stacked onto us now and future generations.

I'm not a fan of Reform because they are too left wing.....but the Tories....that's beyond a joke.

You'd vote blue because it's your identity....the country went to the dogs under them but you're too stuck in your ways to change.

They lost all those red wall votes....they were given a golden, once in a lifetime opportunity and threw it away.

Wonderful!

That’s the quote of 2035. So far! Reform is too left wing!

You condemn the Tories. Regard Labour as worse. Think the LibDems and Greens are a joke.

You should form a new party. It has an obvious name which is commonly understood to represent the kind of policies you believe in. The Nasty Party might not have much appeal, but it would be honest.

 

[Stirlingsays]

With the utmost respect this is hogwash on steroids.

Well, you thought that criticisms of covid were conspiracy theories Willo.....

 

[Willo]

Well, you thought that criticisms of covid were conspiracy theories Willo.....

Clearly we have differing viewpoints. HOL would be exceedingly sterile if it was one gargantuan 'Love-in'. !

 

[Willo]

Like I said, when given power the Tories showed who they really were.

There are examples of Tory ministers calling themselves social liberals....these were the people in power and elected from within the party.

And look at what these 'Tories' did in government....censorship and got rid of none of the woke stuff.....added to it if anything.

Being on the 'right' means nothing in the Tory party, you only have to look at who they elect to lead it.

In the last leadership election,the two candidates put to the membership were both on the 'Right' of the party. Cleverly and Tugenhadt were eliminated.
I re-iterate that I voted for Jenrick.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Whilst your criticism of Reform, its policies and its behaviour are all valid it’s not so long ago I recall you saying you met Farage at a Tory conference and being impressed by him.

There is only one way back for the Tories. They must become fiscally conservative whilst socially liberal Thus clearly differentiating themselves from Reform, who are extremely socially illiberal.

The UK cannot sustain its debt for much longer and unless we change course we are going to be forced to by the IMF. We need to vastly increase our tax revenue, not necessarily by increasing taxes but mainly by increasing tax take through increased activity. More people working, working longer and harder and removing people from benefits they don’t need.

Doing that whilst continuing to recognise diversity and supporting everyone to be themselves will show a caring nature. Tough love is needed but it’s still love and not the hatred that underlies Reform.

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Apropos Reform's polices, there was a series of U-turns during its Conference. Farage’s claim that he would "stop the boats within two weeks of taking office" was hastily rephrased to mean within two weeks of legislation,which of course is an entirely different proposition. Richard Tice, the deputy leader and would-be Chancellor, hinted that their £90 billion tax-cutting plan may not be viable after all. And on education there was nothing, no speech, no focused panel.
Furthermore it has all gone rather silent on the 'No tax for those earning under £20K'.

The next election will be almost entirely about immigration, and sadly, the Tories failed to reduce it in 14 years. In fact, it increased.
Brexit was a small victory, but not fully realised.

It is time for change, and it has to be now. The aim should be to damage the loony left so badly that it won't return in a lifetime.

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

I respectfully disagree with you on this matter.

I respect your disagreement but as i and millions of voters see it there is no alternative.
We need change

 

[Willo]

I respect your disagreement but as i and millions of voters see it there is no alternative.
We need change

The answer is NOT showmanship it is serious politics.
We need a government that sets sensible and realistic targets and meets them, politics that stem from Conservative principles not a hastily assembled knee-jerk reactions and outlandish pledges.
Reform lack substance.
Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

The answer is NOT showmanship it is serious politics.
We need a government that sets sensible and realistic targets and meets them, politics that stem from Conservative principles not a hastily assembled knee-jerk reactions and outlandish pledges.
Reform lack substance.
Be careful what you wish for.

Stopping the boats and reducing net migration are completely realistic ambitions.
No party manifesto ever means anything. It is a selling tool to get votes.

What matters is what happens when you are in power.

The traditional parties have failed to deliver. The Tories have no chance of winning the next election.
Their best option is not to hamper Reform in destroying Labour, and then be ready to step up if Reform also fail to live up to expectations.
Opposing Reform will just give labour a bigger share of the votes. One term is too short a time for those with even the shortest memories to forget Tory failures on immigration.

 

[georgenorman]

The answer is NOT showmanship it is serious politics.
We need a government that sets sensible and realistic targets and meets them, politics that stem from Conservative principles not a hastily assembled knee-jerk reactions and outlandish pledges.
Reform lack substance.
Be careful what you wish for.

From someone whose party had the P.T Barnum of politics, Boris Johnson, as leader!

 

[Willo]

From someone whose party had the P.T Barnum of politics, Boris Johnson, as leader!

Johnson had the ease of personality, the charisma, the ability to engage and cut through and the lightness of touch which matters for a politician.He discovered that during challenging times,trying to manage the pandemic,being lovable and charming will only get one so far when you are actually in a Government 'Hot seat'.
Reform have NO government experience in their ranks and they accept this is their biggest weakness.
Nadine Dorries is a big supporter of Boris Johnson, she worked with him closely.