Reform

[Common Sense Club]

Every opinion poll says the economy is the main issue often with the NHS in second place. No sane person will vote for the one club party,Farage will be shown upat the next election as a charlatan and rabble rouser.

It’s interesting that the socialists and the republicans dominated the French political scene for decades until Macron set up his new party and marched into power. So the vacuum between the two main parties can easily be filled and Reform are currently that party. Macron has since collapsed the French economy and there is a vote of no confidence coming up for them.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

Every opinion poll says the economy is the main issue often with the NHS in second place. No sane person will vote for the one club party,Farage will be shown upat the next election as a charlatan and rabble rouser.

And yet opinion polls have Reform 9% ahead of Labour with Labour’s share still falling and Reform still growing.

 

[Spindle]

The big problem with Reform is the one club golfer attitude,whatever the question nigel says immigration, he doesn't have any other policies.

He won't need any though if KS can't totally change opinion, and I think people aren't going to listen to any more of the messages we've been told, and we're f***ed off with these very loud blue haired mental cases having too much power

Case in point, I've never been Tory, I'm labour and my family always have been, I've voted for lib Dems and even green, tactfully and untactfully, but essentially I'm a social democrat socio-economically, I'm not from the council estate, I'd say I'm in the lower middle classes, the office corporate lower management kind of thing. I'm also pragmatically patriotic, I recognise we've done s*** things, and great things, and where our wealth came from, and what our empire brought us, but I'm absolutely fine with getting in Farage if it means dealing with the threat to our nation and values by this deluge of s*** we cannot afford

Farage won't deliver on any of the things I believe in I'm sure, but he's certainly the only one willing to deal with the existential threat we are facing now. For that reason I'll ditch labour for reform.

 

[Matov]

Farage won't deliver on any of the things I believe in I'm sure, but he's certainly the only one willing to deal with the existential threat we are facing now. For that reason I'll ditch labour for reform.

And this is why Labour are screwed. The Tories had 14 years in Government and did nothing other than make the existenial threat worse. Labour came in and have only made it worse.

Meaning most people are left with the choice of Farage. Now I have very little faith in Farage, and I suspect most people are the same, but the fact that he increasingly appears the only viable alternative to the Uniparty shows how f***ed the situation is.

The old two party dynamic is over. Even in Starmer getting the majority he did, was on the back of polling less votes than Corybn did in 2019.

Reform are, to many people, the only rational choice now. Question is what happens when/if they fail to deliver?

 

[Spindle]

I don't think Labour have made it worse Mat, the weather has. People don't realise that this incredible summer has meant more crossings. Labour has been trying to deal with it, they have improved many aspects, but the trouble is that it was already a tinderbox and unstoppable UNLESS they'd have gone out from day one with the Royal Navy, camps and deportations.

Even Farage required the tinderbox to ignite, he's only just now dared to say "mass deportations" because he knows it's ok to say it, and he's not really answerable to anyone, unlike Starmer who has to appease these far left mentalists

 

[Rudi Hedman]

And this is why Labour are screwed. The Tories had 14 years in Government and did nothing other than make the existenial threat worse. Labour came in and have only made it worse.

Meaning most people are left with the choice of Farage. Now I have very little faith in Farage, and I suspect most people are the same, but the fact that he increasingly appears the only viable alternative to the Uniparty shows how f***ed the situation is.

The old two party dynamic is over. Even in Starmer getting the majority he did, was on the back of polling less votes than Corybn did in 2019.

Reform are, to many people, the only rational choice now. Question is what happens when/if they fail to deliver?

And Starmer lying over and over to the electorate more than ever before. And yet they still continue to lie.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

I don't think Labour have made it worse Mat, the weather has. People don't realise that this incredible summer has meant more crossings. Labour has been trying to deal with it, they have improved many aspects, but the trouble is that it was already a tinderbox and unstoppable UNLESS they'd have gone out from day one with the Royal Navy, camps and deportations.

Even Farage required the tinderbox to ignite, he's only just now dared to say "mass deportations" because he knows it's ok to say it, and he's not really answerable to anyone, unlike Starmer who has to appease these far left mentalists

Yes but now they plan to fast track asylum applications. Labour Party speak for approve them all as fast as possible. It is clear for anyone to see they have no intention to deal with it and are actually in favour of speeding it up. I bloody hate them and many more people are feeling the same.

 

[Spindle]

Worth a read, informative piece.

Nigel Farage has a new 'leave' campaign - here's how it could work and how it might impact you

Not content with Britain having left the EU, Nigel Farage now wants to see the country leave the European Convention on Human Rights. But what even is it, how could we actually leave, and how would our rights be impacted? Sky News explains.

news.sky.com

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

He won't need any though if KS can't totally change opinion, and I think people aren't going to listen to any more of the messages we've been told, and we're f***ed off with these very loud blue haired mental cases having too much power

Case in point, I've never been Tory, I'm labour and my family always have been, I've voted for lib Dems and even green, tactfully and untactfully, but essentially I'm a social democrat socio-economically, I'm not from the council estate, I'd say I'm in the lower middle classes, the office corporate lower management kind of thing. I'm also pragmatically patriotic, I recognise we've done s*** things, and great things, and where our wealth came from, and what our empire brought us, but I'm absolutely fine with getting in Farage if it means dealing with the threat to our nation and values by this deluge of s*** we cannot afford

Farage won't deliver on any of the things I believe in I'm sure, but he's certainly the only one willing to deal with the existential threat we are facing now. For that reason I'll ditch labour for reform.

I listened to Farage’s speech yesterday. Which wasn’t very long and said all the things that people want to hear about stopping the influx of illegal migrants. He spoke with certainty and conviction which will impress those desperate to find solutions.

The trouble is that once you step back and consider what was actually said you realise there’s nothing there except empty rhetoric.

Yes you could, eventually, withdraw from the ECHR, although it would take a lot of parliamentary time to untangle it from UK law. Yes you could reinterpret who we regard as entitled to asylum, although this would be better done internationally. Yes you could build detention centres, but at an estimated cost of £500,000 per place this would be a ridiculously expensive solution to what is intended to be a temporary need. Yes we could reverse our refusal to send people to countries we regard as unsafe.

The problem is not with those things, which are in our control, but with the things that aren’t. They were not even mentioned by Farage but there are two big ones.

The first being that without the active cooperation of France the boats can continue to come and cannot just be returned.

The second is that once on our shores, even if every arrival is immediately declared illegal, they still need to be deported. If they have destroyed their documents where do they go? If we can determine their nationality in other ways then, whilst we would know where they should go, many won’t be able to. Many countries won’t accept the forced return of their citizens. Those going voluntarily ok but you still need cooperation. You could potentially buy that cooperation but it would be mega expensive and encourage some to make a career out of regular well rewarded trips to the uk. Ryan Air would find new opportunities. Many countries would simply refuse, so buying space in third party countries becomes the only option. Rwanda failed, after huge cost.

So these aren’t solutions at all. They are simply changing the appearance of the problem. The only solution is to stop it at source by detecting and cutting the supply chains. We cannot do that on our own.

 

[Spindle]

I listened to Farage’s speech yesterday. Which wasn’t very long and said all the things that people want to hear about stopping the influx of illegal migrants. He spoke with certainty and conviction which will impress those desperate to find solutions.

The trouble is that once you step back and consider what was actually said you realise there’s nothing there except empty rhetoric.

Yes you could, eventually, withdraw from the ECHR, although it would take a lot of parliamentary time to untangle it from UK law. Yes you could reinterpret who we regard as entitled to asylum, although this would be better done internationally. Yes you could build detention centres, but at an estimated cost of £500,000 per place this would be a ridiculously expensive solution to what is intended to be a temporary need. Yes we could reverse our refusal to send people to countries we regard as unsafe.

The problem is not with those things, which are in our control, but with the things that aren’t. They were not even mentioned by Farage but there are two big ones.

The first being that without the active cooperation of France the boats can continue to come and cannot just be returned.

The second is that once on our shores, even if every arrival is immediately declared illegal, they still need to be deported. If they have destroyed their documents where do they go? If we can determine their nationality in other ways then, whilst we would know where they should go, many won’t be able to. Many countries won’t accept the forced return of their citizens. Those going voluntarily ok but you still need cooperation. You could potentially buy that cooperation but it would be mega expensive and encourage some to make a career out of regular well rewarded trips to the uk. Ryan Air would find new opportunities. Many countries would simply refuse, so buying space in third party countries becomes the only option. Rwanda failed, after huge cost.

So these aren’t solutions at all. They are simply changing the appearance of the problem. The only solution is to stop it at source by detecting and cutting the supply chains. We cannot do that on our own.

Sure, but I highlighted a couple of bits that you just don't see.

So, why can't we refuse? Why are we the only mugs in the World just accepting their bullshit stories? Our law needs to change so that they need to prove that they are in need of asylum, not given the benefit of the doubt, because they lie and lie and lie. As soon as documents are gone it should be "We don't know who you are so you're off to the Ascension Island camp, that is unless you can suddenly tell us who you are"

 

[Rudi Hedman]

I listened to Farage’s speech yesterday. Which wasn’t very long and said all the things that people want to hear about stopping the influx of illegal migrants. He spoke with certainty and conviction which will impress those desperate to find solutions.

The trouble is that once you step back and consider what was actually said you realise there’s nothing there except empty rhetoric.

Yes you could, eventually, withdraw from the ECHR, although it would take a lot of parliamentary time to untangle it from UK law. Yes you could reinterpret who we regard as entitled to asylum, although this would be better done internationally. Yes you could build detention centres, but at an estimated cost of £500,000 per place this would be a ridiculously expensive solution to what is intended to be a temporary need. Yes we could reverse our refusal to send people to countries we regard as unsafe.

The problem is not with those things, which are in our control, but with the things that aren’t. They were not even mentioned by Farage but there are two big ones.

The first being that without the active cooperation of France the boats can continue to come and cannot just be returned.

The second is that once on our shores, even if every arrival is immediately declared illegal, they still need to be deported. If they have destroyed their documents where do they go? If we can determine their nationality in other ways then, whilst we would know where they should go, many won’t be able to. Many countries won’t accept the forced return of their citizens. Those going voluntarily ok but you still need cooperation. You could potentially buy that cooperation but it would be mega expensive and encourage some to make a career out of regular well rewarded trips to the uk. Ryan Air would find new opportunities. Many countries would simply refuse, so buying space in third party countries becomes the only option. Rwanda failed, after huge cost.

So these aren’t solutions at all. They are simply changing the appearance of the problem. The only solution is to stop it at source by detecting and cutting the supply chains. We cannot do that on our own.

Doesn’t look very temporary from where we’re all watching. How temporary do you think this is?

The Taliban are apparently ready to do a deal with Farage.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Sure, but I highlighted a couple of bits that you just don't see.

So, why can't we refuse? Why are we the only mugs in the World just accepting their bullshit stories? Our law needs to change so that they need to prove that they are in need of asylum, not given the benefit of the doubt, because they lie and lie and lie. As soon as documents are gone it should be "We don't know who you are so you're off to the Ascension Island camp, that is unless you can suddenly tell us who you are"

So they start keeping their documents or we find other ways of determining nationality, however unlikely that appears at the moment. Their home countries won’t accept their return and we cannot force it. Do you seriously think we could then send many thousands to somewhere like Ascension Island without any prospect of them being able to leave? Imagine the logistics and the staffing requirements. It’s pie in the sky.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Doesn’t look very temporary from where we’re all watching. How temporary do you think this is?

The Taliban are apparently ready to do a deal with Farage.

Great, so we potentially send back people who were fleeing oppression. Single men who could then be indoctrinated and trained as fighters? Or women and children to be treated as uneducated second class citizens? Or those who previously worked for us and would fear for their lives now. Farage has said they would be exempted, so expect a long queue.

That’s about 15% of the total. Only 85% to go!

 

[Teddy Eagle]

I listened to Farage’s speech yesterday. Which wasn’t very long and said all the things that people want to hear about stopping the influx of illegal migrants. He spoke with certainty and conviction which will impress those desperate to find solutions.

The trouble is that once you step back and consider what was actually said you realise there’s nothing there except empty rhetoric.

Yes you could, eventually, withdraw from the ECHR, although it would take a lot of parliamentary time to untangle it from UK law. Yes you could reinterpret who we regard as entitled to asylum, although this would be better done internationally. Yes you could build detention centres, but at an estimated cost of £500,000 per place this would be a ridiculously expensive solution to what is intended to be a temporary need. Yes we could reverse our refusal to send people to countries we regard as unsafe.

The problem is not with those things, which are in our control, but with the things that aren’t. They were not even mentioned by Farage but there are two big ones.

The first being that without the active cooperation of France the boats can continue to come and cannot just be returned.

The second is that once on our shores, even if every arrival is immediately declared illegal, they still need to be deported. If they have destroyed their documents where do they go? If we can determine their nationality in other ways then, whilst we would know where they should go, many won’t be able to. Many countries won’t accept the forced return of their citizens. Those going voluntarily ok but you still need cooperation. You could potentially buy that cooperation but it would be mega expensive and encourage some to make a career out of regular well rewarded trips to the uk. Ryan Air would find new opportunities. Many countries would simply refuse, so buying space in third party countries becomes the only option. Rwanda failed, after huge cost.

So these aren’t solutions at all. They are simply changing the appearance of the problem. The only solution is to stop it at source by detecting and cutting the supply chains. We cannot do that on our own.

Empty rhetoric like stopping people letting religion influence their life?

 

[beak]

Another Tory m.p. goes to Reform there aren't many left, he is a Simpson. now.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr74kg1vg4jo

 

[Spindle]

Great, so we potentially send back people who were fleeing oppression. Single men who could then be indoctrinated and trained as fighters? Or women and children to be treated as uneducated second class citizens? Or those who previously worked for us and would fear for their lives now. Farage has said they would be exempted, so expect a long queue.

That’s about 15% of the total. Only 85% to go!

Well perhaps we should invade and install our values and democracy on them. How about that?

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Empty rhetoric like stopping people letting religion influence their life?

Who has ever suggested that?

People are free to decide for themselves what influences them. They aren’t though free to decide what they do. The law decides that.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Well perhaps we should invade and install our values and democracy on them. How about that?

We tried that a few centuries ago. Didn’t work.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Who has ever suggested that?

People are free to decide for themselves what influences them. They aren’t though free to decide what they do. The law decides that.

OK. I was going to say you did but that doesn't seem to be the right answer.

 

[Stirlingsays]

He won't need any though if KS can't totally change opinion, and I think people aren't going to listen to any more of the messages we've been told, and we're f***ed off with these very loud blue haired mental cases having too much power

Case in point, I've never been Tory, I'm labour and my family always have been, I've voted for lib Dems and even green, tactfully and untactfully, but essentially I'm a social democrat socio-economically, I'm not from the council estate, I'd say I'm in the lower middle classes, the office corporate lower management kind of thing. I'm also pragmatically patriotic, I recognise we've done s*** things, and great things, and where our wealth came from, and what our empire brought us, but I'm absolutely fine with getting in Farage if it means dealing with the threat to our nation and values by this deluge of s*** we cannot afford

Farage won't deliver on any of the things I believe in I'm sure, but he's certainly the only one willing to deal with the existential threat we are facing now. For that reason I'll ditch labour for reform.

My family was Labour as well but I never was....even through all the cultural indoctrination the most left I was was a kind of right wing social liberal. The older and more experienced I became the more right wing.

I agree with you, while Farage's time is coming I don't think it's going to deal with the fundamental problems.

But hell, none of the others will either so he deserves the reigns purely out of rotation if nothing else.

The two main parties have allowed their governance to worsen the lives of the majority of people....they don't deserve another chance.

Time for the radicals.....Farage (well not actually that radical) and if he can't do anything hell have a bit of Corbyn or some other commie......Those fruitcakes have been telling us how us it's all going to be better with them for eons.

It ensures the collapse at least.