Reform

[Badger11]

So his s*** doesn't stink, forgiveness in you is there, and I'm certain that you should equal graciousness to similar situations in other parties?

I put it down to him being out of his depth, at least he's not so stupid as to not know it.

Yes. Because unlike most resignations so far nothing as come out as to why. Normally we get an MP saying he wants to spend more time with his family when we all know it's because he has done something wrong.

It will eventually come out and then I may change my mind but for now we have nothing to go on.

 

[Badger11]

.....the imagination and unicorn covered uplands still runs strong.....

Perhaps you can remind me why they need us so badly in a military sense? What exactly have we got that they need? Just checking I've not got it wrong before I pile in with a huge list of weapons and systems that EU nations have and we do not........

Who is supplying weapons to the Ukraine. Britain and France have been the leading military powers in post war Europe. I don't see the Irish or even Spain steeping up and replacing the UK.

I'm actually quite happy to keep out of it but because we have such a big arms industry the government is having it's arm twisted by the manufacturers.

 

[Badger11]

I think you have a point really.....forty years ago we were a serious military force in the world but ever since defence review after defence review, Tory or Labour have reduced our military down to essentially a reaction force and nothing that could actually fight a war lasting more than a few weeks.

Having said that what we do have is an economy, that while it's no great shakes is in European terms in the top three in Europe.

That's why they want us.

Our military is obviously not what it was but unlike other countries are politicians seem prepared to use it. How reliable will France's EU allies be if and when they are called on?

 

[Stirlingsays]

Our military is obviously not what it was but unlike other countries are politicians seem prepared to use it. How reliable will France's EU allies be if and when they are called on?

I essentially agree with your point on Ukraine.....it's not our war and not worth a drop of our blood.

However the liberal leaders in Europe consider Russia an ideological threat and have already sunk so much money and burnt bridges so much (including allowing cheap gas supply to Europe to be blown up) that they can't stop digging the hole.....If they take collective responsibility then no one's going to hold them to account.....Exactly the same way they avoid accountability over covid.

They have fecked up pretty much everything and they want to convince us that putting our troops into that zone that could erupt at any point makes sense.

If Russia leaves Ukraine as anything other than a rump state then they know that once they have recovered their strength they will try to recover their lands and war starts again.......Ukraine and these politicians would love having our troops in the thick of that.....they want the opportunity to build up.

All for a war that has zero gain for us and that we have spent billions on already.

If the right were in charge in Europe this wouldn't be happening.....but these guys are using corrupt legal systems to stop the right wing all over Europe and subvert democracy as much as they can.

 

[ASCPFC]

Our military is obviously not what it was but unlike other countries are politicians seem prepared to use it. How reliable will France's EU allies be if and when they are called on?

Poland will be one of the strongest these days. Britain will still be the strongest naval power, and likely the RAF is the strongest air force. Although you'd be surprised who wins all the jet fighting competitions - I believe it's Greece.

 

[Badger11]

Poland will be one of the strongest these days. Britain will still be the strongest naval power, and likely the RAF is the strongest air force. Although you'd be surprised who wins all the jet fighting competitions - I believe it's Greece.

Agreed. The question is though how reliable are some of France’s EU allies?

Will Poland involve it's self if it's not a direct threat to the country? Greece isn't known for participating much in foreign conflicts.

It maybe that the EU countries have had a sea change of opinion.

However if I was France I would look around and conclude that the only other country who has been a reliable military ally since WW2 is us, so why try and extort money from us.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

I essentially agree with your point on Ukraine.....it's not our war and not worth a drop of our blood.

However the liberal leaders in Europe consider Russia an ideological threat and have already sunk so much money and burnt bridges so much (including allowing cheap gas supply to Europe to be blown up) that they can't stop digging the hole.....If they take collective responsibility then no one's going to hold them to account.....Exactly the same way they avoid accountability over covid.

They have fecked up pretty much everything and they want to convince us that putting our troops into that zone that could erupt at any point makes sense.

If Russia leaves Ukraine as anything other than a rump state then they know that once they have recovered their strength they will try to recover their lands and war starts again.......Ukraine and these politicians would love having our troops in the thick of that.....they want the opportunity to build up.

All for a war that has zero gain for us and that we have spent billions on already.

If the right were in charge in Europe this wouldn't be happening.....but these guys are using corrupt legal systems to stop the right wing all over Europe and subvert democracy as much as they can.

Many of us believe it is our war. Not yet maybe but if it is lost in a way that allows the Russians to rebuild and break another agreement then it could be.

Churchill knew that action postponed inevitably made things harder. Action today was his bye word and it’s as true today.

No one much cares about an ideological threat. It’s only the right who get wound up by ideology. Most of us worry about a physical threat.

We haven’t got too many front line troops to put into the mix, even if we wanted to. We, and our allies, do though have the technology that can make the difference and it seems that wars these days are won and lost via technology.

If the right were in charge in Europe they would be appeasing Putin alongside Trump. There’s a much greater ideological alignment between Putin and the western right than there’s differences. I don’t care what Putin does in Russia. It’s up to the Russians to sort that out. I don’t though want our right opening the door here. By here I don’t mean just the UK. I mean in democratic Europe of which we are part