Main Stand redevelopment thread

[mtp1958]

There was something about this during the Jordan reign. Can't remember exactly what. Don't think the club had the rights.

Just looked we was given permission 1990s to build up hence the boxs above , as the new stand will have more boxes , I can't see why we can't remove the boxes and build two extra tiers , but have not seen original plans or agreements , so there maybe a reason ,

 

[Painter]

exactly

West Ham went from 35,000 at Upton Park to 65,000 gates and filled it by selling seats cheaply

obviously their plan was then to increase the prices in later years on once people got used to going - which seems to have worked out despite their supporters constant complaints about hating the stadium - so the plan to build the supporter base has worked - but happily not much else at their club!

If Palace went from 26,000 to 41,000 we could sell those tickets in the premier league with aggressive pricing - but moot point as it'll be years before we get to 34,000 and I doubt we'd need many special offers to sell the extra 8,000 in the PL

West Ham could do that, due to the giveaway deal done by Boris Johnson on the Olympic Stadium. He was desperate to find a use for it and gave it to West Ham for £4m a year rent, now £2m as in Championship.
Thats how they could afford to sell cheap season tickets, Palace aren't in that situation and need to find £200m to pay for buildings, reducing match day revenue is a non starter, if anything the cost of tickets will go up.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

From AI mode.

Yes, Crystal Palace retained the airspace rights allowing them to build over the Whitehorse Lane Sainsbury's store. [1, 2]
When the club faced major financial difficulties around 1980, they sold the patch of land to Sainsbury's for £2 million to ease cash flow. However, the club explicitly retained the building and airspace rights above the supermarket. This unique historical contract allowed them to construct executive boxes directly on top of the store's roof in 1991. [1, 2]
While the current, major stadium expansion focuses entirely on redeveloping the Main Stand (which required buying a separate sliver of the Sainsbury's car park), the airspace rights mean that any future redevelopment of the Whitehorse Lane stand could theoretically see a larger tier built directly over the supermarket

I wonder if it's the space above the whole store we (purportedly) have the rights to, or just the bit we put the boxes on?

A look at the deeds via land registry would perhaps reveal more. If I get a chance I'll take a look at some stage.

If it's true, though, well played Noades!

 

[Casual]

Agree regarding the Arthur.
New roof that doesn’t need posts.
My mate in the away end sent me a picture, couldn’t see the pitch because of the tv gantry.
Can’t see them moving it to the new stand though, as they would want the new stand in camera shot all the time , not looking accross at the Arthur Waite.
surely they could raid the new roof height about 3 meters and have the tv gantry at the back of the stand , or really tight to the front of the roof.

I believe we have the right to build

in the airspace above Sainsbury's. In that case, the only issues would be construction safety, evacuation and building the architecture in a tight space with limited access. The Arthur needs to be upgraded. Remove the stanchions, install a new roof truss and improve facilities. If we have 40K already then the question of increasing its capacity will not arise in the near future.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I wonder if it's the space above the whole store we (purportedly) have the rights to, or just the bit we put the boxes on?

A look at the deeds via land registry would perhaps reveal more. If I get a chance I'll take a look at some stage.

If it's true, though, well played Noades!

I see nothing in that AI answer to suggest that. Airspace is airspace.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I see nothing in that AI answer to suggest that. Airspace is airspace.

One world certainly hope so. It does make sense for the club to take that approach back in the day (although it's a surprise to see such a long-sighted approach), and the shape of the supermarket does little to cast doubt on the idea.

I still think it would have been discussed by the club more if it was something they could make use of. The club and ground have been seperated reunited since the original land deal was done, which might have an effect. More to the point, I'm surprised that Parish has never even mentioned it despite all his interviews about the ground and redevelopment etc.

Still, if it's true then that's great.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

One world certainly hope so. It does make sense for the club to take that approach back in the day (although it's a surprise to see such a long-sighted approach), and the shape of the supermarket does little to cast doubt on the idea.

I still think it would have been discussed by the club more if it was something they could make use of. The club and ground have been seperated reunited since the original land deal was done, which might have an effect. More to the point, I'm surprised that Parish has never even mentioned it despite all his interviews about the ground and redevelopment etc.

Still, if it's true then that's great.

The Whitehorse was never going to be prioritized over the Main Stand. I think Parish once suggested that any further upgrades would be left to the next owners.
My opinion is that we will have no choice but to remain in the arms race of stadium building if we are to keep up with our rivals.

 

[palace99]

Ron Noades arranged for the rights when the land was sold for the supermarket. It was intended to build a proper second tier over the shop floor as part of the 48,000 development. If you go inside the you can see just how thick the supporting columns are, far more than is necessary for the existing structure. Part of the sale was that the access road past the supermarket entrance and box office would remain in the Club’s ownership to ensure the Right of Way. I don’t think there has been any change to this.

yes i definitely remember Noades saying when the small Whitehorse terrace was built that it was designed to allow for a second tier to be added later, if required.

However, when he added the executive boxes some years later he then stated something else - something like we might as well put them there as it was dead space.

I think if we are to ever expand that stand it might need to be a similar stand like Bradford's away end - quite a narrow and steep upper tier.

I suspect it won't happen in my lifetime - i'm in my 50s. Hopefully the Main Stand will!

 

[TheBigToePunt]

yes i definitely remember Noades saying when the small Whitehorse terrace was built that it was designed to allow for a second tier to be added later, if required.

However, when he added the executive boxes some years later he then stated something else - something like we might as well put them there as it was dead space.

I think if we are to ever expand that stand it might need to be a similar stand like Bradford's away end - quite a narrow and steep upper tier.

I suspect it won't happen in my lifetime - i'm in my 50s. Hopefully the Main Stand will!

On one hand, everything about the shape and design of the supermarket and houses supports the idea that provision was made for an enlarged stand in the future.

On the other, I just find it difficult to believe that the club retains this airspace right but somehow it just hasn't been mentioned once in all the talk, interviews, press releases etc. You'd think Parish would have touched on it, even if only to say that its something some future owner may wish to make use of, but he doesn't plan to.

If nothing else I am at least fairly confident that it could be done, and probably without losing the supermarket. That makes it far more likely that the Council would grant planning permission for it, and perhaps even use CPO powers to make it happen. There was some talk of that when Sainsburys wouldn't sell the ransom strip for the Main Stand (although we only have Parish' word that Sainsbury's were being unreasonable on the price).

Perhaps if the new Main Stand is seen to pay for itself quite quickly, and we regularly sell out 34000 seats, attention will turn to the Whitehorse.

 

[madcap_v2]

I really don't think we will ever have, or need a stadium greater than 36k capacity.

 

[Phil’s Barber]

I imagine we will because I presume we will do someting with the WHL once the main stand is finished.

Will we still need two levels of executive boxes in the WHL once we have them in the main stand?

Maybe, maybe not…perhaps we could incorporate one row of boxes with another tier of seating above.

Either way we will need to do something with the Whitehorse once the imposing new main stand is along side it and an extra tier of seating above seems to be the logical thing and would push us close to 40,000.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I really don't think we will ever have, or need a stadium greater than 36k capacity.

We will if half of us fancy a lie-down during a game. Or get really fat.

 

[aashman12]

In 1994 we'd found ourselves back in the second tier and had only been in the top division for 4 seasons. Everyone described Palace (along with Forest) as two established top flight clubs that are expected to bounce straight back up. After a slow start (I seem to remember it being a home win over Forest that got us going) we did indeed proceed to smash everyone in the division and went back up as champions. Crowds were almost sold out every game.
Thats after just 4 seasons in the top division. We have just completed our 13th!
Our gates will be very healthy if were went down. For the first season at least

Our home crowds that promotion season were terrible, think we only got 20k plus a few times, and they were when the title was close

 

[aashman12]

I think he means if we did have a huge capacity, we could fill it by doing that. Clearly, we can't do it now.

And then we have to break the news to all those cheapos at the end of the 2nd season that theres a huge rise in the price of their renewals

 

[TheBigToePunt]

And then we have to break the news to all those cheapos at the end of the 2nd season that theres a huge rise in the price of their renewals

Yep, there is always a downside to these ideas. I've said it before but even if the club does things like kids for a quid, it's fine and well but if I had bought a season ticket at full price for my kids and then seen seats in the same stand all but given away for free, I'm not sure I'd be rushing to renew those season tickets. Ultimately, the idea of increasing the capacity is to sell all the seats at market value to generate income.

Some might be concerned that the club doesn't seem to have a long term plan for all four stands. I think that's okay, because by redeveloping stand by stand the club can at least test the market in phases. If we sell out 34000 most weeks then consider extending the Whitehorse. If not, then don't.

We don't need to plunge in with a 40000+ capacity, hope we find enough punters, and then muck about with cheap tickets and giveaways if not. We'll just go step at a time.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Yep, there is always a downside to these ideas. I've said it before but even if the club does things like kids for a quid, it's fine and well but if I had bought a season ticket at full price for my kids and then seen seats in the same stand all but given away for free, I'm not sure I'd be rushing to renew those season tickets. Ultimately, the idea of increasing the capacity is to sell all the seats at market value to generate income.

Some might be concerned that the club doesn't seem to have a long term plan for all four stands. I think that's okay, because by redeveloping stand by stand the club can at least test the market in phases. If we sell out 34000 most weeks then consider extending the Whitehorse. If not, then don't.

We don't need to plunge in with a 40000+ capacity, hope we find enough punters, and then muck about with cheap tickets and giveaways if not. We'll just go step at a time.

It's not just about capacity. It's about image.

Like it or not, the stadium represents a club's status.
Selhurst can't keep trading on its supposedly great atmosphere. It needs to look like a Premier League ground.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

It's not just about capacity. It's about image.

Like it or not, the stadium represents a club's status.
Selhurst can't keep trading on its supposedly great atmosphere. It needs to look like a Premier League ground.

It is fundamentally, and inescapably, about the number of seats and the number of people willing to pay to sit in them. Everything else is secondary at best.

If we can't sell the seats in a new stand then we can't pay for its construction, and the project serves no real purpose.

What image would it create if we had a 42000 seat stadium with 8000 empty seats every week?

 

[HKOwen]

It is fundamentally, and inescapably, about the number of seats and the number of people willing to pay to sit in them. Everything else is secondary at best.

If we can't sell the seats in a new stand then we can't pay for its construction, and the project serves no real purpose.

What image would it create if we had a 42000 seat stadium with 8000 empty seats every week?

I wonder what the current waiting list for season ticket is?

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It is fundamentally, and inescapably, about the number of seats and the number of people willing to pay to sit in them. Everything else is secondary at best.

If we can't sell the seats in a new stand then we can't pay for its construction, and the project serves no real purpose.

What image would it create if we had a 42000 seat stadium with 8000 empty seats every week?

Why would you suppose that it would have 8000 empty seats?

West Ham, Spurs, Arsenal, City and Everton all fill their big new stadiums holding 60k most weeks.

Why wouldn't we fill 40k?

 

[aashman12]

I wonder what the current waiting list for season ticket is?

Think I read its somewhere around 10k