Lacroix

[MrRobbo]

This time last year we were basking in our FA Cup win, looking forward to our first European campaign and hoping to push for a top 6 finish as our team was packed with talent.

I wonder how fans would have felt back then if they had been informed that in a short 12 months we would have lost Glasner, Eze, Guehi, Lacroix and possibly Mateta.

It may well be that some of this is outside the club's control, but it's very difficult to put a positive spin on this.

But would have won a European trophy.

I get that fans dont want to lose players. But I just dont know why people care that much.

None of our players support Palace, they are only here in the first place because we offered the best wage/chance to progress etc etc

The ambition of every player will be to play well and move up. Picking up a trophy or 2 on the way is a massive bonus.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

This time last year we were basking in our FA Cup win, looking forward to our first European campaign and hoping to push for a top 6 finish as our team was packed with talent.

I wonder how fans would have felt back then if they had been informed that in a short 12 months we would have lost Glasner, Eze, Guehi, Lacroix and possibly Mateta.

It may well be that some of this is outside the club's control, but it's very difficult to put a positive spin on this.

I see these things as hand in glove. The loss of the crown jewels from any successful period in our history is inevitable, is outside of the clubs control, and is impossible to see positively.

As others have said, that's modern football. We can either howl at the moon, or accept it and focus on recruiting well and selling well. Personally I prefer the club to recruit and sell well, whilst howling as loudly at the moon as possible. Parish isn't shy when it comes to calling out the closed shop, and good on him. The door is still locked from inside, though!

I imagine Lacroix is typical of the recent crown jewels players. He has done brilliantly for us, we can turn a great profit on him, and reinvest in the squad by buying more than one cheaper player with the money. He's the business model made flesh.

At the same time, even though we don't need to sell on paper, we do in reality. This is an employee who took on a job of work, achieved more than could have been hoped for, and now has bigger opportunities he wants to pursue. If we stand in his way not only do we risk missing out on the money, we risk the relationship turning sour. He's seen all those players get thier chance to move onward and upward, and will not be happy if he is the one denied. Neither would I be.

This is what happens when the model is based on development and sale, and it goes well.

 

[eaglesdare]

This time last year we were basking in our FA Cup win, looking forward to our first European campaign and hoping to push for a top 6 finish as our team was packed with talent.

I wonder how fans would have felt back then if they had been informed that in a short 12 months we would have lost Glasner, Eze, Guehi, Lacroix and possibly Mateta.

It may well be that some of this is outside the club's control, but it's very difficult to put a positive spin on this.

Any club that has any kind of success the vultures come. Happened to Leicester, happened to us and looks like it's happening to villa too after finishing in a champions league spot and winning a trophy.

I'm glad that we won something with the team we had before they all left. We made it count. We just have to rebuild and try again now.

 

[Willo]

Any club that has any kind of success the vultures come. Happened to Leicester, happened to us and looks like it's happening to villa too after finishing in a champions league spot and winning a trophy.

I'm glad that we won something with the team we had before they all left. We made it count. We just have to rebuild and try again now.

A.Villa signed Rogers in a deal worth up to £15 Mill. They have agreed a fee of £117 Mill with Chelsea.
Tielemans was a Free transfer and he has signed for Man Utd for £35 Mill.
Significant profit !

 

[PatrickA]

A.Villa signed Rogers in a deal worth up to £15 Mill. They have agreed a fee of £117 Mill with Chelsea.
Tielemans was a Free transfer and he has signed for Man Utd for £35 Mill.
Significant profit !

I'm sure this is right from.a business perspective, but what about 'the beautiful game', the dreams, the aspiration?
Last night's World Cup Final encapsulates what happens when commerce supercedes the game itself.
'Hydration breaks' (i.e adverts) introduced, the Trophy seen a showcase for the Louis Vuitton brand, half time as a massive MTV style commercial.
The game of football almost incidental to the proceedings.
What next , selling balance sheets instead of programmes?
I see none of the above as enhancing the game even if it's sold as 'progress.'
Even if fans now seem to get more excited by a 'business model' than a 30 yarder into top corner it doesn't help if the nominal profit on the sale of a Lacroix means in turn overpaying on a Johnson or Larsen.

 

[Badger11]

I'm sure this is right from.a business perspective, but what about 'the beautiful game', the dreams, the aspiration?
Last night's World Cup Final encapsulates what happens when commerce supercedes the game itself.
'Hydration breaks' (i.e adverts) introduced, the Trophy seen a showcase for the Louis Vuitton brand, half time as a massive MTV style commercial.
The game of football almost incidental to the proceedings.
What next , selling balance sheets instead of programmes?
I see none of the above as enhancing the game even if it's sold as 'progress.'
Even if fans now seem to get more excited by a 'business model' than a 30 yarder into top corner it doesn't help if the nominal profit on the sale of a Lacroix means in turn overpaying on a Johnson or Larsen.

FIFA have introduced winners rings no doubt at the insistence of the Americans who value their NFL championship rings. These things costs thousands.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

FIFA have introduced winners rings no doubt at the insistence of the Americans who value their NFL championship rings. These things costs thousands.

If you want one they cost £8930 but hurry - there are only 1996 available. Quite a cheap option when the basketball equivalent are about £100,000.
Probably get one down East Lane for £25 although it might not be absolutely genuine.

 

[palace99]

If we have to sell a key asset in Lacroix to fund our splurge in January on Johnson and Larsen then that on the face of it doesn't look like good business.

Yes, there were mitigating circumstances in January as the club thought Mateta was going so a replacement was needed and Larsen was available. Furthermore, Glasner wanted another player to run in behind as we were so reliant on Sarr and Johnson was the one who happened to be available.

I could be wrong but am not convinced by either of these players, particularly taking into account the players we have been selling.
The quality of the squad is being eroded.

I'm not suggesting it's easy.
For example, I doubt the players Villa bring in will be equivalent to Rogers, Teulemans and Martinez (if he goes).
If the odds are stacked against clubs like Villa and Newcastle, who also have turned into a selling club, what hope is there for us?

Have to agree, if Villa and Newcastle can't keep their best players what hope do we have?

Ultimately every player has a price.

Personally with both Lacroix and Wharton having 3 years left on their contracts i would like to keep both for 1 more year, however, if Lacroix has had his head turned it is difficult to keep an unhappy player.

Lacroix is a very good CB, but he has weaknesses. His heading, a bit like Andersen before him, could be better for his height, his ball distribution is average and he often takes the simple sideways pass rather than being more progressive, whilst his biggest asset his probably his pace, occasionally he seems to dither when he retrieves a situation (Everton's 2nd goal at Selhurst being a prime example).

He is replaceable, although prices do seem to have gone mad this summer.

£55m seems to now be the quoted price. I think if we can get it to c£60m that doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

As i mentioned earlier the ideal would be to keep him for 12 more months and have a good go in the Europa league.

 

[MrRobbo]

Ironic that most people thought Lacroix wasn't good enough to replace Anderson. Now they cant bare to lose him.

 

[Save Dwindlehurst]

Will be a shame if he goes but perhaps it’s needed for Sage to bring in a couple of players he’s worked with before. Maybe 3 if there’s a bit left in the kitty from last season. We all saw how that worked with Glasner bringing in Kamada even though ‘he cost us f####ing zero’🎶😬

 

[dreamwaverider]

I see these things as hand in glove. The loss of the crown jewels from any successful period in our history is inevitable, is outside of the clubs control, and is impossible to see positively.

As others have said, that's modern football. We can either howl at the moon, or accept it and focus on recruiting well and selling well. Personally I prefer the club to recruit and sell well, whilst howling as loudly at the moon as possible. Parish isn't shy when it comes to calling out the closed shop, and good on him. The door is still locked from inside, though!

I imagine Lacroix is typical of the recent crown jewels players. He has done brilliantly for us, we can turn a great profit on him, and reinvest in the squad by buying more than one cheaper player with the money. He's the business model made flesh.

At the same time, even though we don't need to sell on paper, we do in reality. This is an employee who took on a job of work, achieved more than could have been hoped for, and now has bigger opportunities he wants to pursue. If we stand in his way not only do we risk missing out on the money, we risk the relationship turning sour. He's seen all those players get thier chance to move onward and upward, and will not be happy if he is the one denied. Neither would I be.

This is what happens when the model is based on development and sale, and it goes well.

I just hope we make a better job than our january window.

 

[Norbury Old Git]

Have to agree, if Villa and Newcastle can't keep their best players what hope do we have?

Ultimately every player has a price.

Personally with both Lacroix and Wharton having 3 years left on their contracts i would like to keep both for 1 more year, however, if Lacroix has had his head turned it is difficult to keep an unhappy player.

Lacroix is a very good CB, but he has weaknesses. His heading, a bit like Andersen before him, could be better for his height, his ball distribution is average and he often takes the simple sideways pass rather than being more progressive, whilst his biggest asset his probably his pace, occasionally he seems to dither when he retrieves a situation (Everton's 2nd goal at Selhurst being a prime example).

He is replaceable, although prices do seem to have gone mad this summer.

£55m seems to now be the quoted price. I think if we can get it to c£60m that doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

As i mentioned earlier the ideal would be to keep him for 12 more months and have a good go in the Europa league.

Lacroix transfer value prior to the World Cup was €50m but will have gone up since. I have seen one report stating that SP wants £70m so it’s not unreasonable to expect the £60m quoted as £55m + £5m add ons. I would also hope we get our £15% of any increase if he is sold. Chelsea will, of course, try to fob us off with one of their useless academy players for a ridiculous sum but SP can tell them to FO!

It will be sad to see him go but luckily there are plenty of good young replacements on the European scene at reasonable prices.

 

[Nicholas91]

Have to agree, if Villa and Newcastle can't keep their best players what hope do we have?

Ultimately every player has a price.

Personally with both Lacroix and Wharton having 3 years left on their contracts i would like to keep both for 1 more year, however, if Lacroix has had his head turned it is difficult to keep an unhappy player.

Lacroix is a very good CB, but he has weaknesses. His heading, a bit like Andersen before him, could be better for his height, his ball distribution is average and he often takes the simple sideways pass rather than being more progressive, whilst his biggest asset his probably his pace, occasionally he seems to dither when he retrieves a situation (Everton's 2nd goal at Selhurst being a prime example).

He is replaceable, although prices do seem to have gone mad this summer.

£55m seems to now be the quoted price. I think if we can get it to c£60m that doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

As i mentioned earlier the ideal would be to keep him for 12 more months and have a good go in the Europa league.

Agree all round.

It always seems as though players are irreplaceable however that's not always the case.

Disaster looms large if there are too many changes however improvement is on the cards too.

 

[PatrickA]

But would have won a European trophy.

I get that fans dont want to lose players. But I just dont know why people care that much.

None of our players support Palace, they are only here in the first place because we offered the best wage/chance to progress etc etc

The ambition of every player will be to play well and move up. Picking up a trophy or 2 on the way is a massive bonus.

Why do people (i.e me) care so much?

Because I like watching very good players representing my club.
A team with Eze, Guehi, Olise and Lacroix is likely to be better, and better to watch, than one without those players.

As a long term fan, it still bothers me to remember the breakup of the team of the 80s and the Coppell team that finished third.

Others are perfectly entitled to feel grateful that we were able to see brilliant players represent little old Palace for a short time and play football manager around the buying and selling of our key assets and the ‘profits’ that accrue.
For me it’s always been about the football and what I watch on Saturday ( or Thursday, Sunday, Monday these days).

There has always been buying and selling of players, but I don’t get this new enthusiasm to turn a profit on players who are on long term contracts merely because a big club flutters their eyelashes at them.

 

[cyprussteve]

Tell Chelsea £60m nothing less or jog on. We are in a strong posistion for a change

 

[Mark B]

There will eventually have to be massive changes in how the global football market works as it currently functions more like a casino and less like professional leagues who want to put out the best product and entertain the fans. It has a reached a point where degenerate gamblers/insanely wealthy throw a ton of money to make a run at winning championships or promotion while losing massive amounts of money. Responsible people spend what they can afford and end up stuck in the middle at best or relegated. The showgirl/best player goes to the hang out with the money and leaves you behind without a second thought when the money looks better somewhere else. Everyone is looking for their next big score and most people cannot figure out where all of the money when because it isn't improving the product on the pitch.

The issue will be is how do you fix the mercenary style when there are so many leagues fighting over the available players and money. As awful as it sounds, FIFA is likely going to have to play a huge role because it is the only organization that has some influence over the leagues.

 

[MrRobbo]

Why do people (i.e me) care so much?

Because I like watching very good players representing my club.
A team with Eze, Guehi, Olise and Lacroix is likely to be better, and better to watch, than one without those players.

As a long term fan, it still bothers me to remember the breakup of the team of the 80s and the Coppell team that finished third.

Others are perfectly entitled to feel grateful that we were able to see brilliant players represent little old Palace for a short time and play football manager around the buying and selling of our key assets and the ‘profits’ that accrue.
For me it’s always been about the football and what I watch on Saturday ( or Thursday, Sunday, Monday these days).

There has always been buying and selling of players, but I don’t get this new enthusiasm to turn a profit on players who are on long term contracts merely because a big club flutters their eyelashes at them.

Personally it all feels a bit different, and much more progressive with player recruitment now.

I also reckon we'd struggle to attract top talent if we refuse to allow them to move on. At present Parish and co can point to all the 'progression' we can help with...breaking into a national team, moving to a top club. That will be attractive for any young ambitious player.

Recently we've done a pretty good job replacing players leaving. Lacroix is a good example. Many didn't want Anderson to go. But Lacroix did even better, and with Riad, Canvot we have young exciting replacements.

I get your point though, nobody wants our best players to leave. But I do take some joy in for example watching Olise tear the Bundesliga apart, as i also do watching someone like Canvot start to develop.

I guess fundamentally I'm very pragmatic with it all.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Why do people (i.e me) care so much?

Because I like watching very good players representing my club.
A team with Eze, Guehi, Olise and Lacroix is likely to be better, and better to watch, than one without those players.

As a long term fan, it still bothers me to remember the breakup of the team of the 80s and the Coppell team that finished third.

Others are perfectly entitled to feel grateful that we were able to see brilliant players represent little old Palace for a short time and play football manager around the buying and selling of our key assets and the ‘profits’ that accrue.
For me it’s always been about the football and what I watch on Saturday ( or Thursday, Sunday, Monday these days).

There has always been buying and selling of players, but I don’t get this new enthusiasm to turn a profit on players who are on long term contracts merely because a big club flutters their eyelashes at them.

Let's not forget that all those good players played for someone else before us. I'm sure supporters of QPR, Reading etc would have liked to have kept them, too. The players moved to us because it was a good career move, we can hardly complain about it happening again, just to us this time.

I do find it interesting, though, that so many presume the 'buy, develop, sell, repeat' model which we've used for the last few years is better than the 'solid journeyman' model we mostly used before.

Is it? The league position hasn't really changed. We won the FA cup with a team of valuable assets but we came pretty close with the journeymen, too.

The likes of Tompkins, PvA, MacArthur, Ayew etc didn't have the motivation of possibly being on big club radars, but then they probably also knew that palace was their best shot at being a regular premier league first team player, so they had no less motivation overall, even if there was a risk they might become a bit too settled.

We know for sure that the journeymen rolled their sleeves up when the going got tough at Palace. We have yet to find out how a team of saleable assets responds to a scrap at the wrong end of the table.

Plus, as you say, there's not much joy in seeing the model work well anyway.

 

[ASCPFC]

Let's not forget that all those good players we had played for someone else before us. I'm sure supporters of QPR, Reading etc would have liked to have kept them, too. The players moved to us because it was a good career move, we can hardly complain about it happening again, just to us this time.

I do find it interesting, though, that so many presume the 'buy, develop, sell, repeat' model which we've used for the last few years is better than the 'solid journeyman' model we mostly used before.

Is it? The league position hasn't really changed. We won the FA cup with a team of valuable assets but we came pretty close with the journeymen, too.

The likes of Tompkins, PvA, MacArthur, Ayew etc didn't have thale motivation of possibly being on big club radars, but then they probably also knew that palace was their best shot at being a regular premier league first team player, so they had no less motivation overall, even if there was a risk they might become a bit too settled.

We know for sure that the journeymen rolled their sleeves up when the going got tough at Palace. We have yet to find out how a team of saleable assets responds to a scrap at the wrong end of the table.

Plus, as you say, there's not much joy in seeing there model work well anyway.

Being completely pedantic, MacArthur was a big transfer target for Arsenal but he got injured and continued for us. He was highly rated. The rest you mentioned, not quite so.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

Being completely pedantic, MacArthur was a big transfer target for Arsenal but he got injured and continued for us. He was highly rated. The rest you mentioned, not quite so.

Are you sure it wasn't Milivojević?