Labour Party politics

[cryrst]

Yes, your claim was incorrect.

I treat my family plenty thank you, but I do so at my own expense, not the taxpayer.

People can do what they want with their own money, obviously. We're talking about public expenditure, and currently we give more welfare to the richest demographic in society than to anyone else - I don't think it's controversial to say that probably needs addressing...

There's this huge contradiction on the right where you all want the welfare bill down and less taxes, but as soon as someone mentions the largest welfare expense we have, there's no real interest in tackling it.

So what is a fair amount for pensioners to live on. It’s easy to have a go at them but offer a number. Excluding general bills. 100 a month, 200 a month1000 a month , you must know as you want to pull it or reduce it !

 

[eaglesdare]

Does the new £15 million "misogyny" prevention fund extend to mosques?

 

[Spindle]

And in the next few decades those arrivals will be looking for a pension as well. Golf and new cars? Alright but how many of them are also helping out their kids and families.

My point is they aren't skint, it's just extra cash.

 

[Spindle]

Your policy is more extreme than mine, but if that's what you think.

Your last sentence is completely untrue - the state pension is our single largest welfare benefit (about 3x what we spend on disability benefits), and pensioner benefits collectively account for the largest share of welfare spending.

"Collectively"

What do we pay that Gazan tart who got shipped over for a free degree with her entire family?

 

[Spindle]

And then they'd probably say 'piss off you miserable dickhead' or something like that.

I don't know why you are whining about your disappearing pension when you are literally voting for Islamic takeover and the billions in taxpayer funding whilst they don't work.

 

[JRW2]

If you read my post, if there is a political will to do so, illegal immigration can be curbed at a fraction of the cost it is now. Really isn’t difficult to understand.

Belated reply

I did read your post, but in retrospect perhaps not carefully enough. And I'm not sure if I see the relevance of the above to my original post. I was being ironic, and so, to be clear, I believe that more should be spent on pensions than on curbing immigration - which I think is your view. If, as you say, the latter could be significantly curbed, so much the better.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

My point is they aren't skint, it's just extra cash.

Sure. Half the amount of minimum wage. No wonder the drive is full of Ferraris.

 

[Spiderman]

Belated reply

I did read your post, but in retrospect perhaps not carefully enough. And I'm not sure if I see the relevance of the above to my original post. I was being ironic, and so, to be clear, I believe that more should be spent on pensions than on curbing immigration - which I think is your view. If, as you say, the latter could be significantly curbed, so much the better.

Apologies if I misunderstood

 

[Spindle]

Sure. Half the amount of minimum wage. No wonder the drive is full of Ferraris.

Teddy, I'm not suggesting you are one of them. But I know quite a lot of "pensioners" at the club who are multi millionaires yet draw a state pension. For me a means test shouldn't be a brutal means test, but for the top, say 20% or so.

 

[cryrst]

Teddy, I'm not suggesting you are one of them. But I know quite a lot of "pensioners" at the club who are multi millionaires yet draw a state pension. For me a means test shouldn't be a brutal means test, but for the top, say 20% or so.

Some tried to send it back or get it cancelled. It’s out there, there is evidence. It is harder to stop than you think. Give to charity I hear you but it doesn’t stop it coming out of hmg in the first place. Means testing is the only way but this will then need to encompass all benefits. Can you imagine how much work involved in that. Then it will be nhs, schools, bus passes and on and on and on.

 

[Badger11]

Some tried to send it back or get it cancelled. It’s out there, there is evidence. It is harder to stop than you think. Give to charity I hear you but it doesn’t stop it coming out of hmg in the first place. Means testing is the only way but this will then need to encompass all benefits. Can you imagine how much work involved in that. Then it will be nhs, schools, bus passes and on and on and on.

I'm not in favour of means testing the state pension but I take your point. It's only a matter of time before a government decides it's the new model. My own preference is to move to a compulsory private scheme where each person has their own pot and don't support others. This would take decades to fully implement but any major change will take years as you have to protect those close to retirement.

 

[cryrst]

I'm not in favour of means testing the state pension but I take your point. It's only a matter of time before a government decides it's the new model. My own preference is to move to a compulsory private scheme where each person has their own pot and don't support others. This would take decades to fully implement but any major change will take years as you have to protect those close to retirement.

But then hmg won’t be in control of the investment if it’s put in a private company pot. Also if it dips then hmg will need to top it up with credits anyway.

 

[chris123]

Teddy, I'm not suggesting you are one of them. But I know quite a lot of "pensioners" at the club who are multi millionaires yet draw a state pension. For me a means test shouldn't be a brutal means test, but for the top, say 20% or so.

You need to be careful how you determine this wealfh, there are going to be asset rich, cash poor in that cohort.

 

[cryrst]

You need to be careful how you determine this wealfh, there are going to be asset rich, cash poor in that cohort.

Which allies with my question earlier which hasn’t been answered by some posters. How much is the amount needed for a pensioner to have a sensible existence. Aside of their monthly spend inc rent, food and fuel etc.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Teddy, I'm not suggesting you are one of them. But I know quite a lot of "pensioners" at the club who are multi millionaires yet draw a state pension. For me a means test shouldn't be a brutal means test, but for the top, say 20% or so.

Don't worry about it; there are worse things to be accused of than having a bit of dosh.
The assets question is a good one, particularly in London, where anyone who bought property years ago is most likely sitting on an appreciable amount but might not be cash rich. In due course those assets will be inherited by the families involved anyway.

 

[chris123]

Which allies with my question earlier which hasn’t been answered by some posters. How much is the amount needed for a pensioner to have a sensible existence. Aside of their monthly spend inc rent, food and fuel etc.

And depends on where you live

 

[cryrst]

And depends on where you live

Most supermarkets are the same price though and that’s the point. How much do oldies need to survive.
If it’s going to be means tested it’s in the term. What are your means.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So what is a fair amount for pensioners to live on. It’s easy to have a go at them but offer a number. Excluding general bills. 100 a month, 200 a month1000 a month , you must know as you want to pull it or reduce it !

Someone much smarter than me can work out a calculation - I've no idea why you think that's relevant to my point.

I've said nothing about reducing it for people who need it. I want to 'pull it' from people who don't.

The specific amount needed to give those pensioners a reasonable standard of living is irrelevant to my argument - it should be calculated the same way all other benefits are calculated.

 

[chris123]

Most supermarkets are the same price though and that’s the point. How much do oldies need to survive.
If it’s going to be means tested it’s in the term. What are your means.

It was Spindle who raised means testing not me, I just queried his premise..

 

[cryrst]

It was Spindle who raised means testing not me, I just queried his premise..

Nah I did tbh. It wasn’t a question for you.
It was for the poster who said many pensioners don’t need it and correctly so.
Although you have to have it anyway.