Labour Party politics

[silvertop]

Were you around in the 1970s? I worked for the Gas Board and Lewisham Council for a short while then, the levels of over-staffing, waste and general incompetence were staggering.

I suspect your views are largely out of date.

I worked in local government pre- and post-austerity. While some of what you describe existed pre- it did not exist post-. Over work, long hours, pitiful pay and morale in the toilet. It needed paring down for the reasons you cite... and then they carried on paring down leaving nothing but the marrow.

 

[Badger11]

The Royal Mail was a world leader and worked wonderfully well whilst Nationalised,last week they had to pay another swingeing fine to to their current ineptitude as a foreign owned company, Thames Water are basically bankrupt caused by paying inflated dividends to foreign investors (mainly Chinese) and in the meanwhile pouring illegal sewage into British rivers and seas. Mac Millan was thought of as an honest,clever politician by all parties, even though Profumo was shhafting a prostitute he was a man of honour who having done nothing wrong himself resigned as he mistakenly trusted Profumo. I am certain that MacMillan is not the silly one.

I agree about Thames but the Royal Mail is another case.

A huge part of their profit was from bills sent out by utility companies and banks etc. Today no one but the ageing get paper bills, it's only going one way.

The one price stamp service is ridiculous but no government has the guts to get rid and replace with a more sensible pricing solution based on distance.

In short the business model for Royal mail is no longer applicable regardless of who actually owns it.

 

[georgenorman]

I suspect your views are largely out of date.

I worked in local government pre- and post-austerity. While some of what you describe existed pre- it did not exist post-. Over work, long hours, pitiful pay and morale in the toilet. It needed paring down for the reasons you cite... and then they carried on paring down leaving nothing but the marrow.

Have you ever worked in the private sector?

 

[silvertop]

Have you ever worked in the private sector?

Yeah, mostly.

But there work is hard but wages are market.

 

[georgenorman]

Yeah, mostly.

But there work is hard but wages are market.

Exactly, that why Capitalism, by and large, works and Socialism doesn't.

 

[Badger11]

47% vote for Plaid.
36% for Reform.
11% for Labour.
6% for the rest.

According to the BBS this was a defeat for Reform and their nasty racist policies.

Not sure I would put it that way. I think I would say voters prefer Plaid and Reform to Labour who polled just 11% in a rock sold Labour seat.

As for nasty racist parties well apparently in Wales they prefer their flavour to be more Plaid.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

47% vote for Plaid.
36% for Reform.
11% for Labour.
6% for the rest.

According to the BBS this was a defeat for Reform and their nasty racist policies.

Not sure I would put it that way. I think I would say voters prefer Plaid and Reform to Labour who polled just 11% in a rock sold Labour seat.

As for nasty racist parties well apparently in Wales they prefer their flavour to be more Plaid.

Chuckle.

The key thing here is that Reform beat Labour and Tories combined by 19% in a staunchly socialist area of Wales.

 

[Matov]

According to the BBS this was a defeat for Reform and their nasty racist policies.

Not sure I would put it that way. I think I would say voters prefer Plaid and Reform to Labour who polled just 11% in a rock sold Labour seat.

As for nasty racist parties well apparently in Wales they prefer their flavour to be more Plaid.

Reform thought they were going to win it. What this result shows is the danger that tactical voting poses for Reform. Might actually, long term, do Reform some good because it shows them that things are not sewn up. But disastrous for Labour and the Tories combined.

 

[ASCPFC]

Reform thought they were going to win it. What this result shows is the danger that tactical voting poses for Reform. Might actually, long term, do Reform some good because it shows them that things are not sewn up. But disastrous for Labour and the Tories combined.

I think it could be read to show Reform will win most of England. Then the supposed national parties will win the majority of Scotland, Wales and NI with some surprise Reform results thrown in. It didn't make huge sense to me for Reform to win any majority outside of England. The other parts of the UK have nationalist parties they can vote for. England will see Reform as their version of a nationalist party.
I would worry more about dirty tricks from the establishment and the future of a United Kingdom than I would tactical voting. As, when you consider it, there will be no nationalist alternative in England to vote for tactically. And Labour look dead in the water - you can hardly blame people for that. Unfortunately, for the diehards, Tories are gone. There is no come back unless Reform takes them. Which I don't think they should - but they might be forced to.

 

[beak]

Exactly, that why Capitalism, by and large, works and Socialism doesn't.

Both have there place in a well run economy. Thames Water and the Train companies are not blossoming in the market place and are better as nationalised entities.Thames water was/are paying eye watering dividends to foreign investors.

 

[HKOwen]

Dog whistle Lucy Powell beats class ideology fan Philipson to be Labour Deputy leader. The Burnham/Powell group will concentrate on undermining Starmer, hopefully this SOS will eat themselves.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Chuckle.

The key thing here is that Reform beat Labour and Tories combined by 19% in a staunchly socialist area of Wales.

Hopefully for that part of Wales they didn't vote nationalist out of a distaste for immigration thinking that the nationalist party were anti immigration. As Plaid Cymru are more pro immigration than even Labour.

You get what you vote for I guess.

 

[HKOwen]

Both have there place in a well run economy. Thames Water and the Train companies are not blossoming in the market place and are better as nationalised entities.Thames water was/are paying eye watering dividends to foreign investors.

I have always been against the privatisation of water, it is a monopoly with no consumer choice so not suitable for the free market. The problem is, and will always be, the infrastructure is so old the cost of proper maintenance is massive, the dividend payments over the years would only make a small dent in the cost of operating the system properly.

No easy answer but the current state of waste and pollution is a national disgrace.

Labour could have renationalised under Blair but chose not to.

The rail network similarly is not an open market as consumers are trapped by location. I remember British Rail when I first started working, absolutely awful.

The rail networks in Europe are generally excellent under mixed ownership models so it can be done. As with many things Japan has the best rail network in the world that have travelled on

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Dog whistle Lucy Powell beats class ideology fan Philipson to be Labour Deputy leader. The Burnham/Powell group will concentrate on undermining Starmer, hopefully this SOS will eat themselves.

It's great.

She is another moron who will alienate the working class.

Starmer only sacked her 8 weeks ago.

Popcorn time.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Hopefully for that part of Wales they didn't vote nationalist out of a distaste for immigration thinking that the nationalist party were anti immigration. As Plaid Cymru are more pro immigration than even Labour.

You get what you vote for I guess.

They have 4 years to figure it out.

 

[HKOwen]

It's great.

She is another moron who will alienate the working class.

Starmer only sacked her 8 weeks ago.

Popcorn time.

Never had a proper job in her life

 

[ASCPFC]

Hopefully for that part of Wales they didn't vote nationalist out of a distaste for immigration thinking that the nationalist party were anti immigration. As Plaid Cymru are more pro immigration than even Labour.

You get what you vote for I guess.

I did wonder. I know SNP and Sinn Fein want to import a captive vote but didn't know about Plaid Cymru. It seems to fly in the face of them wanting to burn the English out. But I guess the anti English was strong enough to counter the lovely idea of immigrants who will enhance Wales, just as they have plenty of other places.
What's a few more on the dole when everyone else is I guess?

 

[Stirlingsays]

I did wonder. I know SNP and Sinn Fein want to import a captive vote but didn't know about Plaid Cymru. It seems to fly in the face of them wanting to burn the English out. But I guess the anti English was strong enough to counter the lovely idea of immigrants who will enhance Wales, just as they have plenty of other places.
What's a few more on the dole when everyone else is I guess?

Nationalist movements in Scotland, Wales and Ireland were captured by the far left decades ago.
They are only nationalist in terms of their hatred for the English and performative for their host nation....which they regard as purely cultural and nothing to do with ancestry......the ancestry of wales being intrinsically connected to Britain and Ireland anyway.....It goes without saying that these isles share native ancestry.....which the elites are hell bent on turning into minorities within their own lands.

 

[ASCPFC]

Never had a proper job in her life

I heard Starmer's had plenty of proper jobs. Most he had to pay for himself, apparently.

 

[chris123]

Nationalist movements in Scotland, Wales and Ireland were captured by the far left decades ago.
They are only nationalist in terms of their hatred for the English and performative for their host nation....which they regard as purely cultural and nothing to do with ancestry......the ancestry of wales being intrinsically connected to Britain and Ireland anyway.....It goes without saying that these isles share native ancestry.....which the elites are hell bent on turning into minorities within their own lands.

Not sure about Scotland when it comes to decades, in 2010 out of 59 seats Labour won 41 and Lib Dems 11. And Labour were quite sensible then?