Labour Party politics

[silvertop]

It is not a benefit. It is a state pension.

How can you justify punishing responsibility?

What we need to do is stop wasting money. Money wasting by the state is huge.

Paid for from what?

And I argue it should be. If anything has undergone mission creep over the decades it is the estate pension.

No argument from me on smaller government and removing waste where a business case cannot be made; but in addition to a boost to private healthcare, further restrictions on access to healthcare (e.g. the ID card you guys loath) and means testing pensions.

But it won't happen. Farage will do as Musk did and other savings aimed at immigrants to a chorus of big cheers. Actually, it will be nothing more than window dressing; and achieve next to no change to the books. In fact, it will more likely represent a finger in the dyke given the massive increased spending on border control and everything else he promised... but the NHS and state pensions will not be touched.

 

[beak]

I agree but there are plenty of people who choose not to save and opt out of work place pensions. Then when they retire they whine about being a poor pensioner and get loads of free benefits.

The state pension and the work pension should be merged into one compulsory pension scheme.

In the long term this will give people enough to live on and spare the taxpayer. Then you have to work out how much help you actually give those who it doesn't help, a much harder question. However if people are forced from the start of their working life to save it doesn't have to be that much over 40 years to have a decent pension.

I have friends who were a bit slow to realise the need for AVC's but they are now avidly saving and admiring the tax benefits, my clinching argument was "we won't be seeing you in the pub much,your current pension level will not allow it". 😆 😆 😆

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Paid for from what?

And I argue it should be. If anything has undergone mission creep over the decades it is the estate pension.

No argument from me on smaller government and removing waste where a business case cannot be made; but in addition to a boost to private healthcare, further restrictions on access to healthcare (e.g. the ID card you guys loath) and means testing pensions.

But it won't happen. Farage will do as Musk did and other savings aimed at immigrants to a chorus of big cheers. Actually, it will be nothing more than window dressing; and achieve next to no change to the books. In fact, it will more likely represent a finger in the dyke given the massive increased spending on border control and everything else he promised... but the NHS and state pensions will not be touched.

Nice one. Blaming Farage for something he hasn't done yet.

The NHS must be 'touched' to secure its future, but it will be Labour who will use the NHS as a weapon in the next election, as usual. They will claim that Farage intends to dismantle it. See the problem?

There is every reason to increase our border control and start deporting criminals and anti British activists.
There is great justification to build an off shore detention centre, so migrants can be processed without setting foot in this country. That would soon halt the flow.

The state pension has to work for all or no one. Company and private pensions should be incentivised.

The import of people to prop up the state pension could never work. It is a short term patch at best.

The long term solution is to incentivise having bigger families and reduce the cost of living.

Easy.

 

[silvertop]

Nice one. Blaming Farage for something he hasn't done yet.

The NHS must be 'touched' to secure its future, but it will be Labour who will use the NHS as a weapon in the next election, as usual. They will claim that Farage intends to dismantle it. See the problem?

There is every reason to increase our border control and start deporting criminals and anti British activists.
There is great justification to build an off shore detention centre, so migrants can be processed without setting foot in this country. That would soon halt the flow.

The state pension has to work for all or no one. Company and private pensions should be incentivised.

The import of people to prop up the state pension could never work. It is a short term patch at best.

The long term solution is to incentivise having bigger families and reduce the cost of living.

Easy.

Ha, yes, anyone can do it.

I thought you would like my reference to Farage as I see Labour's continual toil as little more than a prelude to a Reform government.

Every party weaponizes the NHS.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Ha, yes, anyone can do it.

I thought you would like my reference to Farage as I see Labour's continual toil as little more than a prelude to a Reform government.

Every party weaponizes the NHS.

The answer is cheap energy. The greedy bastards who supply it need their wings clipping.

I say that flippantly and with no hope of it actually happening, but it's nonetheless true.

 

[Spiderman]

Brexit to weigh on UK economy 'for foreseeable future', BoE's Bailey says​

😎

Nothing to do with Labour then

 

[Spiderman]

I agree but there are plenty of people who choose not to save and opt out of work place pensions. Then when they retire they whine about being a poor pensioner and get loads of free benefits.

The state pension and the work pension should be merged into one compulsory pension scheme.

In the long term this will give people enough to live on and spare the taxpayer. Then you have to work out how much help you actually give those who it doesn't help, a much harder question. However if people are forced from the start of their working life to save it doesn't have to be that much over 40 years to have a decent pension.

And plenty who cannot afford to save

 

[Rudi Hedman]

The answer is cheap energy. The greedy bastards who supply it need their wings clipping.

I say that flippantly and with no hope of it actually happening, but it's nonetheless true.

Maybe we shouldn’t have sold off British Gas. Look at EDF in France, and those fvckers sell energy to us at retail prices. More reason to dislike them.

 

[silvertop]

The answer is cheap energy. The greedy bastards who supply it need their wings clipping.

I say that flippantly and with no hope of it actually happening, but it's nonetheless true.

Probably more chance than health or pension reform!

 

[silvertop]

And plenty who cannot afford to save

Yes and both would get state pension.

These arguments are no different to the benefit trap for universal credit etc.

 

[Stirlingsays]

EU fanboys should watch this video.....it focuses on France's finances.

Though the blame largely lies with neoliberalism's takeover of politics in the western world rather than an individual country or a wannabe superstate of mediocre mostly midwit politicians on the usual gravy train.

 

[chris123]

Maybe we shouldn’t have sold off British Gas. Look at EDF in France, and those fvckers sell energy to us at retail prices. More reason to dislike them.

It's nuclear though so the cost comparison will be different

 

[beak]

Maybe we shouldn’t have sold off British Gas. Look at EDF in France, and those fvckers sell energy to us at retail prices. More reason to dislike them.

Many of the Thatcherite decisions were thought to be very clever but have proven to be flawed. Thames Water and selling Council Housing at undercut prices were not clever. The best Tory Prime Minister since the Second World War Harold Mac Millan's famous quote about selling off the family silver, in reference to Margaret Thatcher's privatization program, is: "First the Georgian silver goes, and then all that nice furniture that used to be in the saloon. Then the Canalettos go". He delivered this in a 1985 speech, where he used the metaphor of an aristocratic family running into financial difficulty to criticize the sale of state assets, arguing it was a distinction between capital and income that should be treated with caution.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Probably more chance than health or pension reform!

Desperate needs call for desperate measures, but not always very well thought out ones.

 

[Jacey]

Many of the Thatcherite decisions were thought to be very clever but have proven to be flawed. Thames Water and selling Council Housing at undercut prices were not clever. The best Tory Prime Minister since the Second World War Harold Mac Millan's famous quote about selling off the family silver, in reference to Margaret Thatcher's privatization program, is: "First the Georgian silver goes, and then all that nice furniture that used to be in the saloon. Then the Canalettos go". He delivered this in a 1985 speech, where he used the metaphor of an aristocratic family running into financial difficulty to criticize the sale of state assets, arguing it was a distinction between capital and income that should be treated with caution.

Not also forgetting Gordon's disastrous decision to sell off some of our UK gold reserves.

 

[georgenorman]

Many of the Thatcherite decisions were thought to be very clever but have proven to be flawed. Thames Water and selling Council Housing at undercut prices were not clever. The best Tory Prime Minister since the Second World War Harold Mac Millan's famous quote about selling off the family silver, in reference to Margaret Thatcher's privatization program, is: "First the Georgian silver goes, and then all that nice furniture that used to be in the saloon. Then the Canalettos go". He delivered this in a 1985 speech, where he used the metaphor of an aristocratic family running into financial difficulty to criticize the sale of state assets, arguing it was a distinction between capital and income that should be treated with caution.

It was one of Macmillan's sillier speeches. Nationalised industries at the time were hopeless, inefficient, strike-ridden producers of sub-standard goods and services.

 

[beak]

It was one of Macmillan's sillier speeches. Nationalised industries at the time were hopeless, inefficient, strike-ridden producers of sub-standard goods and services.

The Royal Mail was a world leader and worked wonderfully well whilst Nationalised,last week they had to pay another swingeing fine to to their current ineptitude as a foreign owned company, Thames Water are basically bankrupt caused by paying inflated dividends to foreign investors (mainly Chinese) and in the meanwhile pouring illegal sewage into British rivers and seas. Mac Millan was thought of as an honest,clever politician by all parties, even though Profumo was shhafting a prostitute he was a man of honour who having done nothing wrong himself resigned as he mistakenly trusted Profumo. I am certain that MacMillan is not the silly one.

 

[georgenorman]

The Royal Mail was a world leader and worked wonderfully well whilst Nationalised,last week they had to pay another swingeing fine to to their current ineptitude as a foreign owned company, Thames Water are basically bankrupt caused by paying inflated dividends to foreign investors (mainly Chinese) and in the meanwhile pouring illegal sewage into British rivers and seas. Mac Millan was thought of as an honest,clever politician by all parties, even though Profumo was shhafting a prostitute he was a man of honour who having done nothing wrong himself resigned as he mistakenly trusted Profumo. I am certain that MacMillan is not the silly one.

Were you around in the 1970s? I worked for the Gas Board and Lewisham Council for a short while then, the levels of over-staffing, waste and general incompetence were staggering.

 

[silvertop]

It was one of Macmillan's sillier speeches. Nationalised industries at the time were hopeless, inefficient, strike-ridden producers of sub-standard goods and services.

Absolutely, but still need to sell at the right price.

Brown is rightly castigated for the sale of our gold at a gross undervalue, but largely by the same people who applauded the sale of the nationalized industries... at a gross undervalue.

 

[beak]

Were you around in the 1970s? I worked for the Gas Board and Lewisham Council for a short while then, the levels of over-staffing, waste and general incompetence were staggering.

I was around but I can say that some firms work well privately and others work better nationalized.I wouldn't be able to explain why.