Israel v Hamas

[indianapalace85]

Proportionality? When terrorists murder your civilians by the thousands, your response won’t be a polite tap on the shoulder. Hamas hides behind kids and women while Israel warns, targets militants, and ends threats. Crying about 'disproportionate' is just covering for terrorists.

As for your military expertise, it's not very good. Targeted airstrikes hit militants fast with less risk to soldiers and civilians – ground invasions in cities drag on, cause more chaos, and put everyone in the crossfire. Your tactics would have more civilians killed.

Oh wow, let's hire you as military commander quick, before more civilians are killed.

Oh look, we don't need to, cos they're managing to murder civilians quite well without your guidance.

If my tactics would have more civilians killed, I'm confused as to which part of their current tactics you think are actually working to minimalise civilian casualties?

 

[indianapalace85]

He probably thinks 50,000 Jews should be allowed to be killed to make everything "proportionate".

No, but maybe 50,000 lobotomies to give you a proper brain.

 

[Eagleman13]

No, but maybe 50,000 lobotomies to give you a proper brain.

Can I ask you a Q? please. You seem a very angry person, are you in 'rottweiler' mode this month?

 

[indianapalace85]

Can I ask you a Q? please. You seem a very angry person, are you in 'rottweiler' mode this month?

I'm perfectly calm.

I just get frustrated with people that can't read and also fail to answer any questions that come their way.

I also take issue with anyone justifying war crimes and genocide. But hey, each to their own.

 

[Eagleman13]

I'm perfectly calm.

I just get frustrated with people that can't read and also fail to answer any questions that come their way.

I also take issue with anyone justifying war crimes and genocide. But hey, each to their own.

You're doing exactly the same, so it seems to me, tho hurling insults to other posters, is not really a good idea. I suggest an early night & a glass of milk before bed, you'll feel so much better in the morning. Now off you go, sleep tight & make sure the bed bugs don't bite. Nighty night.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Oh wow, let's hire you as military commander quick, before more civilians are killed.

Oh look, we don't need to, cos they're managing to murder civilians quite well without your guidance.

If my tactics would have more civilians killed, I'm confused as to which part of their current tactics you think are actually working to minimalise civilian casualties?

Well the civilian-to-militant death ratio in this war is comparable to or better than other recent urban conflicts in the Middle East such as Iraq and Syria. The conflict in Aleppo (2012-16) had higher civilian death ratios.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

This is full of hyperbole and conspiracy theories.

Untrue.

It asked reasonable questions which you have avoided answering by criticising the questions.

Perhaps you can now try to ignore your perception of hyperbole and conspiracy theories and answer the questions.

 

[HKOwen]

I'm perfectly calm.

I just get frustrated with people that can't read and also fail to answer any questions that come their way.

I also take issue with anyone justifying war crimes and genocide. But hey, each to their own.

The issue is not the word semantics or where then numbers come from.

The issue is the failure of people on here to recognise and respect your intellectual and moral superiority to almost every other poster on here.

People need to realise that they should hang on your every word and opinion and in my humble opinion be grateful.

Thank you for being just the best person to post here

Indeed, we are not worthy

 

[indianapalace85]

Untrue.

It asked reasonable questions which you have avoided answering by criticising the questions.

Perhaps you can now try to ignore your perception of hyperbole and conspiracy theories and answer the questions.

Unfortunately the Israeli loyalists are incapable of answering any questions

 

[Living In Hope]

I'm perfectly calm.

I just get frustrated with people that can't read and also fail to answer any questions that come their way.

I also take issue with anyone justifying war crimes and genocide. But hey, each to their own.

Throwing insults at anyone who doesn't agree with you is not the way to deal with this. It perfectly illustrates what has gone wrong in Britain, where we used to have lively debate with those of differing viewpoints, perhaps even learning something from them, and not loathing and insulting them.

If there is anything we should all be able to agree on with regard to the Middle East, it is that the situation is incredibly complicated (far beyond us Palace fans), with both sides of the current conflict having suffered huge injustices (and a lot worse) historically.

So what is a proportionate response to 7th October ? I can tell you that if a foreign government dedicated to the annihilation of Britain sent in a force to murder, rape and mutilate 1,200 of our citizens going about their daily lives, then my immediate response would be that we must (a) destroy the regime completely and utterly and (b) ensure that anyone of similar view was never again under the illusion that such an atrocity could be worthwhile.

I am not saying it is the wise or right response, but it is surely understandable. So I have no idea what proportionate is here, and yes the Israeli response feels disproportionate to me, but just to shout "genocide" and dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as evil or stupid is just not right.

And if you try to cite history in order to take sides, you may get a different answer depending on your reference point, for example the last 12 months, or 7th October 2023, or 1967, or the Holocaust, or the Balfour Declaration, or even 2,000 years ago.

It is not simple, and hating one another for different perspectives is just not the way forward.

 

[indianapalace85]

The issue is not the word semantics or where then numbers come from.

The issue is the failure of people on here to recognise and respect your intellectual and moral superiority to almost every other poster on here.

People need to realise that they should hang on your every word and opinion and in my humble opinion be grateful.

Thank you for being just the best person to post here

Indeed, we are not worthy

It's not me that's superior.

It's everyone else that has no morality.

Cue everyone mentioning Oct 7th again and somewhow using that to justify everything since... Yawn.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Unfortunately the Israeli loyalists are incapable of answering any questions

Maybe if you weren't so rude, you might get a better response.

 

[indianapalace85]

Throwing insults at anyone who doesn't agree with you is not the way to deal with this. It perfectly illustrates what has gone wrong in Britain, where we used to have lively debate with those of differing viewpoints, perhaps even learning something from them, and not loathing and insulting them.

If there is anything we should all be able to agree on with regard to the Middle East, it is that the situation is incredibly complicated (far beyond us Palace fans), with both sides of the current conflict having suffered huge injustices (and a lot worse) historically.

So what is a proportionate response to 7th October ? I can tell you that if a foreign government dedicated to the annihilation of Britain sent in a force to murder, rape and mutilate 1,200 of our citizens going about their daily lives, then my immediate response would be that we must (a) destroy the regime completely and utterly and (b) ensure that anyone of similar view was never again under the illusion that such an atrocity could be worthwhile.

I am not saying it is the wise or right response, but it is surely understandable. So I have no idea what proportionate is here, and yes the Israeli response feels disproportionate to me, but just to shout "genocide" and dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as evil or stupid is just not right.

And if you try to cite history in order to take sides, you may get a different answer depending on your reference point, for example the last 12 months, or 7th October 2023, or 1967, or the Holocaust, or the Balfour Declaration, or even 2,000 years ago.

It is not simple, and hating one another for different perspectives is just not the way forward.

OK so using your example... how would you distinguish between A and B, minillaising civilian casualties in the process?

 

[indianapalace85]

Maybe if you weren't so rude, you might get a better response.

Actually you weren't answering anyone on here long before I joined the chat.

Even now, incapable of answering anything. You remained strangely silent since the beach attach a few hours ago.

What's your response to that?

 

[Penge Eagle]

Actually you weren't answering anyone on here long before I joined the chat.

Even now, incapable of answering anything. You remained strangely silent since the beach attach a few hours ago.

What's your response to that?

Can you post the link?

What have I not answered? And any response to the civilian death ratio I posted?

 

[indianapalace85]

Can you post the link?

What have I not answered? And any response to the civilian death ratio I posted?

Israeli strike on Gaza seafront cafe kills at least 20 Palestinians, witnesses and rescuers say

The outdoor cafe was frequently used by journalists, activists and local residents.

www.bbc.co.uk

What's your defence of this then?

 

[Living In Hope]

OK so using your example... how would you distinguish between A and B, minillaising civilian casualties in the process?

If Britain was attacked in this way and the attackers hid behind their civilians (most of whom also wished us to be annihilated), I would be sorely tempted to do as the Israelis have done, and accept heavy civilian casualties to deliver those aims. But that's exactly why I don't know if it is the wise or right response. However, many Israelis would have seen October 7th as part of an existential threat needing the strongest possible response. I understand that, but then I also see the appalling suffering of ordinary Palestinians in Gaza, and what appears to be a travesty of an aid programme implemented by the Israelis. I don't claim to have the answers, but the situation is borne of deep-rooted hatred, and I would like us to get away from that sentiment in discussing these things.

 

[indianapalace85]

If Britain was attacked in this way and the attackers hid behind their civilians (most of whom also wished us to be annihilated), I would be sorely tempted to do as the Israelis have done, and accept heavy civilian casualties to deliver those aims. But that's exactly why I don't know if it is the wise or right response. However, many Israelis would have seen October 7th as part of an existential threat needing the strongest possible response. I understand that, but then I also see the appalling suffering of ordinary Palestinians in Gaza, and what appears to be a travesty of an aid programme implemented by the Israelis. I don't claim to have the answers, but the situation is borne of deep-rooted hatred, and I would like us to get away from that sentiment in discussing these things.

At last, a fair and proportionate response to the debate.

It's all I've asked for all day.

You're the first to actually acknowledge the difficulty surrounding both sides, whereas most are simply saying Oct 7th is the basis of any Israeli onslaught of Hamas at any cost - which is mostly Palestian civilians.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Israeli strike on Gaza seafront cafe kills at least 20 Palestinians, witnesses and rescuers say

The outdoor cafe was frequently used by journalists, activists and local residents.

www.bbc.co.uk

What's your defence of this then?

What a stupid question. Innocent lives lost is a tragic consequence of any war. Nobody likes to see this. We are yet to know the full details to make any verdict of why it happened and death toll etc. This war can end tomorrow if Hamas hands back the hostages and vows to lay down its weapons.

 

[Penge Eagle]

At last, a fair and proportionate response to the debate.

It's all I've asked for all day.

You're the first to actually acknowledge the difficulty surrounding both sides, whereas most are simply saying Oct 7th is the basis of any Israeli onslaught of Hamas at any cost - which is mostly Palestian civilians.

The facts say that the militant to civilian death ratio is on par or better than any other in regional urban warfare. So it's not at "any cost" at all.