Israel v Hamas

[Spindle]

Agree with this.

Slightly aside, have you noticed Labour have gone all Israel. There was that one, mild, box-ticking, we still want to trade in the Middle East rebuke that caused Trump to tell us off. Otherwise, you have a Cabinet Minister interviewed. They are asked about the killing of non-com Gazans. They deflect with a 7 Oct response.

Maybe it's because Israel are fighting a war against terrorist groups who have declared us as enemies. Just a thought.

 

[Spindle]

But if it is "far more serious", where is the incendiary element? What has it incited save debate and tut tuts?

Ok fine. So you are ok with the "we scored 3 they scored 1" song because it's not got an incendiary element.

Although I thought that "death death to the IDF" was pretty clear.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

When my son was four, he wasn't big into politics.

Shame, he could've made a fine journalist. Until he grew out of it in another year.

 

[Spindle]

Yes, ethnic cleansing is genocide.

Who is counting the population in Gaza at the moment..?

So you agree that the Arab world has committed anti Semitic genocide which continues today.

Where's your protest march?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

So you agree that the Arab world has committed anti Semitic genocide which continues today.

Where's your protest march?

I'll answer questions when you do - who is counting the population at the moment?

We've been told we can't believe the UN death toll, the IDF claim not to have one, so how exactly is someone managing an accurate population count..?

 

[Spindle]

Seriously... that's all you've got?

So what's the 'academic debate' that it's not a genocide? Obviously you have to hold something up against the unanimous opinion of genocide experts and human rights organisations...

Are all wars genocide? All of them?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Are all wars genocide? All of them?

God these are getting worse.

No, not every war is a genocide. The ones where every genocide expert in the world labels them a genocide are though.

 

[Spindle]

I'll answer questions when you do - who is counting the population at the moment?

We've been told we can't believe the UN death toll, the IDF claim not to have one, so how exactly is someone managing an accurate population count..?

I have answered, and again, I said it ISN'T genocide because of an increase in population and the behaviours of the IDF, generally. According to the logic these self proclaimed experts use every conflict would be genocide, so YES it cheapens the word.

I consider genocide the use of widespread death camps, labour camps, forced marches, selection and execution with or without trial, and targeted massacre as policy. This has happened in history many times, but Gaza isn't that at all.

Imagine if you had your family butchered in Rwanda or Bosnia and having to listen to this bullshit from these sheltered self serving academics.

As for surveys, since you admit that there is no reliable population count then how can you claim anything? Also, the natural death rate in Gaza accounts for a lot of the deaths anyway, and you credit the IDF with those murdered directly by Hamas on their own people

 

[DanH]

I have answered, and again, I said it ISN'T genocide because of an increase in population and the behaviours of the IDF, generally. According to the logic these self proclaimed experts use every conflict would be genocide, so YES it cheapens the word.

I consider genocide the use of widespread death camps, labour camps, forced marches, selection and execution with or without trial, and targeted massacre as policy. This has happened in history many times, but Gaza isn't that at all.

Imagine if you had your family butchered in Rwanda or Bosnia and having to listen to this bullshit from these sheltered self serving academics.

Where are you getting this data from? You either missed or conveniently ignored my last post that suggests the complete opposite.

 

[Spindle]

God these are getting worse.

No, not every war is a genocide. The ones where every genocide expert in the world labels them a genocide are though.

But civilians are killed, and massacres occur in all wars. All of them.

 

[Spindle]

Where are you getting this data from? You either missed or conveniently ignored my last post that suggests the complete opposite.

Missed it, but edited.

It was from Statista

 

[Phil’s Barber]

The title of this thread is "Israel v Hamas" which is the nub of the matter. Who do you want to win? A pro-Western democracy or elected anti-Western, anti-Jew, anti-Christian terrorists. Hmm, lets think ...

Exactly.

I wish Israel every success in defeating Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRG and all of their supporters/sympathisers.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I have answered, and again, I said it ISN'T genocide because of an increase in population and the behaviours of the IDF, generally. According to the logic these self proclaimed experts use every conflict would be genocide, so YES it cheapens the word.

I consider genocide the use of widespread death camps, labour camps, forced marches, selection and execution with or without trial, and targeted massacre as policy. This has happened in history many times, but Gaza isn't that at all.

Imagine if you had your family butchered in Rwanda or Bosnia and having to listen to this bullshit from these sheltered self serving academics.

As for surveys, since you admit that there is no reliable population count then how can you claim anything? Also, the natural death rate in Gaza accounts for a lot of the deaths anyway, and you credit the IDF with those murdered directly by Hamas on their own people

You haven't answered - who is counting the population for you to know it's increasing? Do you think they're just popping a census round in between airstrikes? How can that data possibly be reliable or accurate?

Funny enough, what you personally consider genocide is entirely irrelevant - I am far more interested in what experts in the field consider it to be, and they are unanimous in their agreement. I don't know what credentials you have to suggest you know better than them.

 

[silvertop]

Ok fine. So you are ok with the "we scored 3 they scored 1" song because it's not got an incendiary element.

Although I thought that "death death to the IDF" was pretty clear.

Whether I am OK or not is neither here nor there.

Also, it has less to do with the emotional/political impact of the words.

One was made during rioting, related to specific acts of rioters against hotels etc. where immigrants lived and was judged to make it worse and put those people at risk.

The other has no perceived impact at all save it upset a lot of people.

If you want to receive an argument of the type you have just made, does this mean you support the violent attack by vigilante mobs on hotels and hostels occupied by asylum seekers?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

But civilians are killed, and massacres occur in all wars. All of them.

Right, and not one person has said 'if civilians are killed, it must be a genocide'.

 

[DanH]

Exactly.

I wish Israel every success in defeating Hamas, Hezbollah and the IRG and all of their supporters/sympathisers.

You realise even the dissenters want Israel to take Hamas out too, don’t you?

It’s the rest of the Palestinian people being taken out with them that we’re concerned about.

 

[HKOwen]

God these are getting worse.

No, not every war is a genocide. The ones where every genocide expert in the world labels them a genocide are though.

How many genocide experts are there in the world at the moment ? Is there a list we can refer to?

Seems you know all of them and their expert opinions

Of course not, I have highlighted in bold the nonsense part of your post.


This is purely speculation on your part yet you write is as if factual.

 

[silvertop]

The title of this thread is "Israel v Hamas" which is the nub of the matter. Who do you want to win? A pro-Western democracy or elected anti-Western, anti-Jew, anti-Christian terrorists. Hmm, lets think ...

I keep saying this and you keep ignoring this as an inconvenient fact.

9% of Palestinians are Christian.

They cannot be members of Hamas which is exclusively Islamic.

Israeli bombs do not discriminate; and Israel has shown no inclination to avoid Christian neighborhoods.

It is not difficult to do the arithmetic. This "holy war" has seen Jew kill over 5,000 Christians who posed no threat to Israel.

I am an atheist and see it only as human killing human. However, I wonder how someone who professes to be a Christian views that, especially in the context of the 6th Commandment.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

How many genocide experts are there in the world at the moment ? Is there a list we can refer to?

Seems you know all of them and their expert opinions

Of course not, I have highlighted in bold the nonsense part of your post.


This is purely speculation on your part yet you write is as if factual.

Yes, I shared the entire article above if you're interested - a bit longer form than a lot of tabloid reporting.

If there is any credible disagreement to what I shared, from other similarly qualified people, I'd certainly be interested to read it.

Or we could just start speculating about whether there is a list of genocide experts, because that would be a really strong counterargument.

The genocide supporters are flailing big time today.

 

[silvertop]

How many genocide experts are there in the world at the moment ? Is there a list we can refer to?

Seems you know all of them and their expert opinions

Of course not, I have highlighted in bold the nonsense part of your post.


This is purely speculation on your part yet you write is as if factual.

A little over 1000 Israelis killed on October 7th 2022.

A conservatively estimated 60,000 plus Palestinians bombed, shot, starved etc. by Israel since then.

The first is an atrocity committed by terrorists. I suspect we are as one on that.

What would you call the second?

And please do not cop out by challenging the numbers. Let us say it is half the number of dead Palestinians. Even Israel would not challenge e.g. 30,000.