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Israel v Hamas

Penge Eagle said:
Genocide? Gaza’s population doubled from 1M in 2000 to over 2M in 2023. Israel drops leaflets, warns civilians, pauses for aid. No mass graves, no death camps, no gas chambers. This isn’t genocide — it’s war, and Hamas hides behind kids. Stop cheapening the word.
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Again, I'm just sharing the view of every prominent genocide expert in the world, but I guess you know better than them.
 
Penge Eagle said:
Like who?
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"Can I name someone whose work I respect who does not think it is genocide? No, there is no counterargument that takes into account all the evidence," Israeli researcher Raz Segal told NRC.

Professor Ugur Umit Ungor of the University of Amsterdam and NIOD Institute for War, Holocaust and Genocide Studies said that while there are certainly researchers who say it is not genocide, "I don't know them".

The Dutch paper reviewed 25 recent academic articles published in the Journal of Genocide Research, the field’s leading journal, and found that “all eight academics from the field of genocide studies see genocide or at least genocidal violence in Gaza”.

Leading human rights organisations have also reached the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. In December 2024, Amnesty International became the first major organisation to conclude that Israel had committed genocide during its war on Gaza, while Human Rights Watch more conservatively concluded that "genocidal acts" had been committed.

Francesca Albanese, the UN's top expert on Palestine, authored two reports last year suggesting that genocide was taking place in Gaza.

Genocide studies as a discipline does not treat the issue as a binary, the NRC report said. Rather than asking whether genocide has happened or not, scholars see it as a gradual process.

Ungor compares it to a “dimmer switch” rather than an on-off light.

“Contrary to public opinion, leading genocide researchers are surprisingly unanimous: the Netanyahu government, they say, is in that process - according to the majority, even in its final stages,” the investigation concluded. “That is why most researchers no longer speak only of 'genocidal violence', but of 'genocide'.”

The report noted that even researchers who had previously hesitated to use the term have since changed their position, such as Shmuel Lederman of the Open University of Israel.

It also referred to the opinion of Canadian international law scholar William Schabas that Israel is committing genocide, although he is considered otherwise conservative with respect to genocide labelling. Schabas said Israel's campaign in Gaza was "absolutely" a genocide.

Israel’s inaction following the January 2024 interim ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) was a decisive factor in leading many scholars to conclude that its conduct in Gaza amounts to genocide, NRC reported.

The legally binding ruling ordered Israel to take immediate steps to prevent genocide by allowing aid into Gaza and stopping dehumanising rhetoric that incited the extermination of Palestinians.

Lederman initially opposed the use of the genocide label. However, following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s dismissal of the ICJ’s ruling, the continued closure of land crossings to Gaza and a letter by 99 US health workers stating that the death toll in Gaza exceeded 100,000, he was convinced that Israel’s actions do in fact constitute genocide.

Meanwhile, Melanie O'Brien, president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, told NRC that Israel’s deliberate denial of food, water, shelter and sanitation was the key factor in her determination that the military campaign was a genocide.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
"Can I name someone whose work I respect who does not think it is genocide? No, there is no counterargument that takes into account all the evidence," Israeli researcher Raz Segal told NRC.

Professor Ugur Umit Ungor of the University of Amsterdam and NIOD Institute for War, Holocaust and Genocide Studies said that while there are certainly researchers who say it is not genocide, "I don't know them".

The Dutch paper reviewed 25 recent academic articles published in the Journal of Genocide Research, the field’s leading journal, and found that “all eight academics from the field of genocide studies see genocide or at least genocidal violence in Gaza”.

Leading human rights organisations have also reached the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. In December 2024, Amnesty International became the first major organisation to conclude that Israel had committed genocide during its war on Gaza, while Human Rights Watch more conservatively concluded that "genocidal acts" had been committed.

Francesca Albanese, the UN's top expert on Palestine, authored two reports last year suggesting that genocide was taking place in Gaza.

Genocide studies as a discipline does not treat the issue as a binary, the NRC report said. Rather than asking whether genocide has happened or not, scholars see it as a gradual process.

Ungor compares it to a “dimmer switch” rather than an on-off light.

“Contrary to public opinion, leading genocide researchers are surprisingly unanimous: the Netanyahu government, they say, is in that process - according to the majority, even in its final stages,” the investigation concluded. “That is why most researchers no longer speak only of 'genocidal violence', but of 'genocide'.”

The report noted that even researchers who had previously hesitated to use the term have since changed their position, such as Shmuel Lederman of the Open University of Israel.

It also referred to the opinion of Canadian international law scholar William Schabas that Israel is committing genocide, although he is considered otherwise conservative with respect to genocide labelling. Schabas said Israel's campaign in Gaza was "absolutely" a genocide.

Israel’s inaction following the January 2024 interim ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) was a decisive factor in leading many scholars to conclude that its conduct in Gaza amounts to genocide, NRC reported.

The legally binding ruling ordered Israel to take immediate steps to prevent genocide by allowing aid into Gaza and stopping dehumanising rhetoric that incited the extermination of Palestinians.

Lederman initially opposed the use of the genocide label. However, following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s dismissal of the ICJ’s ruling, the continued closure of land crossings to Gaza and a letter by 99 US health workers stating that the death toll in Gaza exceeded 100,000, he was convinced that Israel’s actions do in fact constitute genocide.

Meanwhile, Melanie O'Brien, president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, told NRC that Israel’s deliberate denial of food, water, shelter and sanitation was the key factor in her determination that the military campaign was a genocide.
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All ‘activists’ with an agenda, I’m sure.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
"Can I name someone whose work I respect who does not think it is genocide? No, there is no counterargument that takes into account all the evidence," Israeli researcher Raz Segal told NRC.

Professor Ugur Umit Ungor of the University of Amsterdam and NIOD Institute for War, Holocaust and Genocide Studies said that while there are certainly researchers who say it is not genocide, "I don't know them".

The Dutch paper reviewed 25 recent academic articles published in the Journal of Genocide Research, the field’s leading journal, and found that “all eight academics from the field of genocide studies see genocide or at least genocidal violence in Gaza”.

Leading human rights organisations have also reached the conclusion that Israel is committing genocide. In December 2024, Amnesty International became the first major organisation to conclude that Israel had committed genocide during its war on Gaza, while Human Rights Watch more conservatively concluded that "genocidal acts" had been committed.

Francesca Albanese, the UN's top expert on Palestine, authored two reports last year suggesting that genocide was taking place in Gaza.

Genocide studies as a discipline does not treat the issue as a binary, the NRC report said. Rather than asking whether genocide has happened or not, scholars see it as a gradual process.

Ungor compares it to a “dimmer switch” rather than an on-off light.

“Contrary to public opinion, leading genocide researchers are surprisingly unanimous: the Netanyahu government, they say, is in that process - according to the majority, even in its final stages,” the investigation concluded. “That is why most researchers no longer speak only of 'genocidal violence', but of 'genocide'.”

The report noted that even researchers who had previously hesitated to use the term have since changed their position, such as Shmuel Lederman of the Open University of Israel.

It also referred to the opinion of Canadian international law scholar William Schabas that Israel is committing genocide, although he is considered otherwise conservative with respect to genocide labelling. Schabas said Israel's campaign in Gaza was "absolutely" a genocide.

Israel’s inaction following the January 2024 interim ruling by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) was a decisive factor in leading many scholars to conclude that its conduct in Gaza amounts to genocide, NRC reported.

The legally binding ruling ordered Israel to take immediate steps to prevent genocide by allowing aid into Gaza and stopping dehumanising rhetoric that incited the extermination of Palestinians.

Lederman initially opposed the use of the genocide label. However, following Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s dismissal of the ICJ’s ruling, the continued closure of land crossings to Gaza and a letter by 99 US health workers stating that the death toll in Gaza exceeded 100,000, he was convinced that Israel’s actions do in fact constitute genocide.

Meanwhile, Melanie O'Brien, president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars, told NRC that Israel’s deliberate denial of food, water, shelter and sanitation was the key factor in her determination that the military campaign was a genocide.
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It's an academic debate - it's not settled in fact or law.
 
CPFCSaturn said:
Seriously... that's all you've got?

So what's the 'academic debate' that it's not a genocide? Obviously you have to hold something up against the unanimous opinion of genocide experts and human rights organisations...
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His posts bring to mind my four year old when I let go of him in the swimming pool.
 
Wisbech Eagle said:
It was by far not the most serious.

It was about something thousands of miles away which will have no direct consequences here. It was a stupid, attention seeking, part of a performance which unfortunately went out live.

It would have incited nobody but has received widespread condemnation.

The other went to a very specific audience who were already wound up. They were prime for incitement. The consequences were terrible.
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Wait, you think that the group who've gone out of their way to buy and bring Palestinian flags to a festival and many of whom have actively joined marches and protest groups are not "primed for incitement"?

You know it's worse, but you're dug in.

Thankfully the cops will bring about charges this time and I hope the terrorist Jew hater ends up with a few months inside.

If also like to see Jewish groups pressure their record labels too, in the same way the Palestine mob harass defence firms and their workers
 
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