Israel v Hamas

[CPFCSaturn]

Kind of like when Hezbollah fire rockets into Israel then really.

Yes, exactly - both indiscriminate acts.

 

[cryrst]

Yes, exactly - both indiscriminate acts.

But it’s only Jews one way so no drama !!!

 

[CPFCSaturn]

But it’s only Jews one way so no drama !!!

This thread just goes round and round in circles.

I condemn war crimes, indiscriminate acts and any other violence against civilians, on both sides - it is you and others who regularly fail to do the same.

I hold state militaries to a higher standard of conduct than terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah - if we don't hold our militaries to a higher standard of conduct, one has to question what is the difference between the two.

I raise and discuss the actions of the IDF more regularly than Hamas and Hezbollah because they are the side currently doing the majority of the killing, by an absolute landslide. Were that reversed, as it was on October 7th, then I would once again thoroughly condemn the actions of whoever was responsible.

I have been entirely consistent in my principles, which cannot be said of many of you defending Israel who frankly seem to lack even basic humanity when it concerns an Arab.

 

[cryrst]

This thread just goes round and round in circles.

I condemn war crimes, indiscriminate acts and any other violence against civilians, on both sides - it is you and others who regularly fail to do the same.

I hold state militaries to a higher standard of conduct than terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah - if we don't hold our militaries to a higher standard of conduct, one has to question what is the difference between the two.

I raise and discuss the actions of the IDF more regularly than Hamas and Hezbollah because they are the side currently doing the majority of the killing, by an absolute landslide. Were that reversed, as it was on October 7th, then I would once again thoroughly condemn the actions of whoever was responsible.

I have been entirely consistent in my principles, which cannot be said of many of you defending Israel who frankly seem to lack even basic humanity when it concerns an Arab.

If I don’t care why bother !

 

[Penge Eagle]

That's an interesting claim given two of the twelve dead were children, and another four were health care workers.

If I'm not mistaken, the pagers were issued months before the detonations, so the only thing Israel knew was who was issued a pager months previously - they had absolutely no idea where the pagers would be or who would be holding them when they decided to blew them up. But as ever, they didn't care.

"Indiscriminate" as you say is clearly crap. If the targets were Hezbollah pager users as the shipment was picked up by them, and of the 3,000-5,000 delivered to operatives, 3,000 detonated and 32 deaths occurred - that makes it a fatality rate of 1-2%. Is that indiscriminate? Some civilian casualties shows it was not perfect. The ultimate goal was terrorist injuries, communication breakdown and a hit to morale, showing high intelligence precision from Israel (unique in counter-terrorism). Especially when compared to air strikes.

The two-bob rocket attacks into Israel are not exactly known for precision.

 

[Penge Eagle]

This thread just goes round and round in circles.

I condemn war crimes, indiscriminate acts and any other violence against civilians, on both sides - it is you and others who regularly fail to do the same.

I hold state militaries to a higher standard of conduct than terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah - if we don't hold our militaries to a higher standard of conduct, one has to question what is the difference between the two.

I raise and discuss the actions of the IDF more regularly than Hamas and Hezbollah because they are the side currently doing the majority of the killing, by an absolute landslide. Were that reversed, as it was on October 7th, then I would once again thoroughly condemn the actions of whoever was responsible.

I have been entirely consistent in my principles, which cannot be said of many of you defending Israel who frankly seem to lack even basic humanity when it concerns an Arab.

A death is a death no matter what label you want to put on the actor committing the killing.

The "holding Israel to a higher moral standard" is just an incredibly convenient excuse to condemn the Jews as the bad guys.

If you compare Israel's Gaza campaign to other urban warfare benchmarks, it is better than the average. It's not easy when Gaza has a high population density and Hamas uses its own people as human shields.

Israel’s civilian casualty ratio in Gaza is between 1.5:1 and 2.8:1 which is better than the average for urban warfare (9:1). It outperforms: Mosul (2016-17) US-backed forces and in Aleppo (2016) Russian/Syrian strikes.

It's such a shame that Hamas started this war and so many lives have been lost.

 

[Spindle]

This thread just goes round and round in circles.

I condemn war crimes, indiscriminate acts and any other violence against civilians, on both sides - it is you and others who regularly fail to do the same.

I hold state militaries to a higher standard of conduct than terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah - if we don't hold our militaries to a higher standard of conduct, one has to question what is the difference between the two.

I raise and discuss the actions of the IDF more regularly than Hamas and Hezbollah because they are the side currently doing the majority of the killing, by an absolute landslide. Were that reversed, as it was on October 7th, then I would once again thoroughly condemn the actions of whoever was responsible.

I have been entirely consistent in my principles, which cannot be said of many of you defending Israel who frankly seem to lack even basic humanity when it concerns an Arab.

Nobody likes what's going on but it's a bit naive to think that this conflict is going to be anything other than an awful bloodbath.

Maybe the Arabs shouldn't have piled in in 738AD.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

A death is a death no matter what label you want to put on the actor committing the killing.

The "holding Israel to a higher moral standard" is just an incredibly convenient excuse to condemn the Jews as the bad guys.

If you compare Israel's Gaza campaign to other urban warfare benchmarks, it is better than the average. It's not easy when Gaza has a high population density and Hamas uses its own people as human shields.

Israel’s civilian casualty ratio in Gaza is between 1.5:1 and 2.8:1 which is better than the average for urban warfare (9:1). It outperforms: Mosul (2016-17) US-backed forces and in Aleppo (2016) Russian/Syrian strikes.

It's such a shame that Hamas started this war and so many lives have been lost.

You continue to suggest that I am judging Jews by a different standard to anyone else, and I will continue to say that I find those some of accusations in incredibly poor taste.

If you disagree with my point on holding a military to a higher standard than a terrorist organisation, then please answer the question - if we should hold a military to the same standard we do a terrorist organisation in terms of how they conduct warfare... what is the difference between the two?

The 'casualty ratio' you have proposed is just nonsense, and I'm fairly confident anyone who's followed this conflict in any detail knows that.

In early December 2023, an Israeli official claimed Israel had killed 5,000 militants. ]On December 29, the IDF said it had killed 8,000 Hamas fighters. On 30 December 2023, Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated 2,353 militant deaths (based 30,034 total and 27,681 civilian deaths). On 19 February 2024, one Hamas official told Reuters 6,000 of its militants had been killed, but a second Hamas official denied this figure in an interview with BBC. Hamas also put out an official statement denying the 6,000 figure. The same day, the IDF claimed it had killed 12,000 militants up to that point. The IDF did not confirm that number to the BBC, but in two separate responses, said the figure is "approximately 10,000" and "more than 10,000", with the Israeli embassy in London giving a similar figure. On 7 April, the IDF said that more than 13,000 operative of Hamas and its allies had been killed by Israel in Gaza in the fighting (although an IDF press release gave 12,000+), in addition to the 1,000 killed on 7 October. The IDF said these deaths included five Hamas brigade commanders or equivalent, 20 battalion commanders, and over 100 company commanders or equivalent. On May 12 Netanyahu said about 14,000 militants and 16,000 civilians had been killed in Gaza - that about 47% of the deaths were of militants. On August 15, 2024 the IDF claimed more than 17,000 militants had been killed.

The AP, CNN, Washington Post, NBC and others have all said that the IDF has provided no evidence for its claims of how many militants it has killed, or been unable to verify the claims provided.

Sources have doubted the Israeli figures by questioning the IDF's ability to distinguish civilians from combatants(for example, the IDF mistakenly identified three Israeli civilians as Palestinian militants). Many observers believe Israel simply treats all adult male casualties as militants. Other observers argue that Israel could be arriving at inflated figures of militant deaths by including all civil servants as militants.

BBC Verify repeatedly asked IDF for its methodology on counting militant deaths, but the IDF never responded. BBC Verify attempted to count militant deaths by compiling all announcements of militant deaths on the IDF's official telegram channel; it found the IDF had made 160 such announcements, summing up to 714 total militant deaths in the Gaza Strip (as of 29 February), however 247 references used terms such as “several”, “dozens”, or “hundreds” which made a meaningful tally impossible. BBC Verify also viewed all 280 videos posted on the IDF's YouTube channel of Gaza operations, and found that only one of those videos actually showed dead bodies of Palestinian militants.

An analysis by Zoran Kusovac in Al-Jazeera in December 2023, said that IDF's own numbers imply 62 Hamas fighters killed for every Israeli soldier killed in Gaza operations. Kusovac argued that if only half the militants were killed in combat, a constant loss exchange ratio of 31:1 over many months would be so demoralizing that Hamas fighters would rout, yet as Hamas continues to fight, its losses must be smaller than claimed.

In March 2024, Haaretz interviewed several standing army commanders and reserve commanders who cast doubt on Israel's official figures of how many "terrorists" it had killed. Many of those included in the combatant killed count were simply "Palestinians who never held a gun in their lives".

In January 2025, the Jerusalem Post said the "numbers don't add up" regarding Israeli claims about Hamas military casualties. In October 2023, the IDF had estimated Hamas 25,000 fighters; in 2024 the IDF claimed to killing 17–20,000 fighters, wounding another 14–16,000 and capturing 6,000. Yet in January, it said there were still had 12–23,000 fighters left. To reconcile the discrepancy, the IDF revised its October 2023 estimate to 40,000 and said Hamas must have recruited thousands more.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The report claims 9 terrorists killed. That leaves six non terrorisists which is sad but there is no smoke without fire.
If that is proven then Israel have a reason as Hamas are their enemy.

Israel admits mistakes over medic killings in Gaza

Israeli forces killed 15 emergency workers in a convoy of ambulances near Rafah on 23 March.

www.bbc.co.uk

Imagine my shock.

Video evidence is found to contradict the IDF version of events, and all of sudden they admit a 'mistake', and the world once again knows they are liars whose version of events cannot ever be trusted.

And I'm meant to believe a 'civilian casualty rate' from the same organisation.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Media/data suppression is a big part of this genocide. USA arms, Western intelligence and financial backing, as well as diplomacy in keeping the Arabs away.
Killing impartial aid workers to scare off any outside witnesses.
The trouble is, the destruction is on such a massive scale, other countries can see events from aeroplanes and satellites. And occasionally a rare witness escapes with photographic evidence.
This is way more than going after HAMAS terrorists. This is re-drawing political boundaries and killing and displacement of an entire population. And make sure nobody gets to see it.

 

[HKOwen]

Media/data suppression is a big part of this genocide. USA arms, Western intelligence and financial backing, as well as diplomacy in keeping the Arabs away.
Killing impartial aid workers to scare off any outside witnesses.
The trouble is, the destruction is on such a massive scale, other countries can see events from aeroplanes and satellites. And occasionally a rare witness escapes with photographic evidence.
This is way more than going after HAMAS terrorists. This is re-drawing political boundaries and killing and displacement of an entire population. And make sure nobody gets to see it.

The impartiality of aid workers is your opinion, which is fine, but it's not a fact.


"Nobody gets to see it ", indeed, hardly been any coverage since the original massacre in Israel.

And you can rely on the BBC to fund a pro Hamas documentary starring the son of a Hamas official.

Etc etc etc

 

[steeleye20]

A Lebanese lady, surveying the wreckage of her bombed-out home.

'This is the work of the United States and Israel, and ..... the British'.

😎

 

[Penge Eagle]

The impartiality of aid workers is your opinion, which is fine, but it's not a fact.


"Nobody gets to see it ", indeed, hardly been any coverage since the original massacre in Israel.

And you can rely on the BBC to fund a pro Hamas documentary starring the son of a Hamas official.

Etc etc etc

Agree. The BBC cannot be used as a credible source for this conflict as their behaviour has been appalling. Not referring to Hamas as terrorists was a bit of giveaway to their loyalties.

A few examples of where the state broadcaster has had to apologise, mostly by taking Hamas propaganda at face value.

In October 2023, falsely reporting an Israeli strike had hit the Gaza Hospital; November 2023, falsely reporting that the IDF was targeting "medical teams and Arab speakers" at the hospital in Gaza; December 2023, falsely reporting that the IDF had carried out executions of 137 Palestinian civilians in Gaza; March 2025, produced and did not disclose the narrator was the son of a senior Hamas official.

 

[HKOwen]

A Lebanese lady, surveying the wreckage of her bombed-out home.

'This is the work of the United States and Israel, and ..... the British'.

😎

So she is a post detonation expert.

You must be gutted it wasn't a bombed out home in Israel

 

[HKOwen]

Agree. The BBC cannot be used as a credible source for this conflict as their behaviour has been appalling. Not referring to Hamas as terrorists was a bit of giveaway to their loyalties.

A few examples of where the state broadcaster has had to apologise, mostly by taking Hamas propaganda at face value.

In October 2023, falsely reporting an Israeli strike had hit the Gaza Hospital; November 2023, falsely reporting that the IDF was targeting "medical teams and Arab speakers" at the hospital in Gaza; December 2023, falsely reporting that the IDF had carried out executions of 137 Palestinian civilians in Gaza; March 2025, produced and did not disclose the narrator was the son of a senior Hamas official.

There are two camps here on this whole thread, those who think the October 7th massacre was justified by previous actions of Israel, and those who don't.

The small number of rabid jew haters are in their own camp