Israel v Hamas

[Spindle]

Quite - it leaves just enough wiggle room for Israel to claim its legal, and little lemmings happily lap that up.

Obviously anyone with a brain, including Trump, knows exactly what Israel are doing.

Attacking those who attack it

 

[Spindle]

Even Maggie Thatcher didn't bomb Northern Ireland. Because killing civilians is wrong ?

Dreadful analogy

 

[Spindle]

Can the USA stick to this deal and control pariah state Israel which is dependant on them?

There is not a lot of hope given their record.

A worse defeat than Vietnam?

Given that 65000 Americans were killed in Vietnam then no. But wtf do you know

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Ooh look. Israel is still bombing and killing people in Lebanon, even after the ceasefire has begun.

USA has pulled out of further negotiations

Gigantic clusterfk

Perchance FIFA can do a VAR review and rescind Trumps Peace Prize 😁

 

[ASCPFC]

Ooh look. Israel is still bombing and killing people in Lebanon, even after the ceasefire has begun.

USA has pulled out of further negotiations

Gigantic clusterfk

Perchance FIFA can do a VAR review and rescind Trumps Peace Prize 😁

People seem to think Israel will just stop because the US said so. It clearly isn't the case. And has been stated by Israel. They'll need to be paid off in a deal.

 

[silvertop]

People seem to think Israel will just stop because the US said so. It clearly isn't the case. And has been stated by Israel. They'll need to be paid off in a deal.

They took it on the chin from Iraq for the first Gulf war.

I wonder what price they extracted for that?

 

[ASCPFC]

They took it on the chin from Iraq for the first Gulf war.

I wonder what price they extracted for that?

A lot, I should imagine.

 

[chris123]

They took it on the chin from Iraq for the first Gulf war.

I wonder what price they extracted for that?

They need to hold elections by the end of October, be interesting to see if they vote for a moderate like Yair Lapid.

 

[ASCPFC]

They need to hold elections by the end of October, be interesting to see if they vote for a moderate like Yair Lapid.

Usually some kind of coalition. That's the current issue: the most hardline, Orthodox are part of this coalition.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Not really seeing this Iran agreement lasting.

 

[Spindle]

And unfortunately he's right. They only respect real power.

 

[silvertop]

Not really seeing this Iran agreement lasting.

View attachment 3667

Hard right Zionist swivel eyed lot have held the political balance for far too long.

A working example of power corrupts.

US pullout will leave Israel fighting guerilla wars left right and centre with Iran fighting them by proxy.

Ie the Middle East to revert to usual business.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Hard right Zionist swivel eyed lot have held the political balance for far too long.

A working example of power corrupts.

US pullout will leave Israel fighting guerilla wars left right and centre with Iran fighting them by proxy.

Ie the Middle East to revert to usual business.

Trump is the first example for decades of someone willing to deescalate (even though the war was his fault) in decades. All we usually get is the double down and a worsening situation. But while Trump will obviously claim victory, this really is him taking a significant L.....but it's also him facing reality and making the correct choice.....there is no other realistic choice without economic collapse.

But just as the IRA discovered when they bombed the square mile (main financial district), the only way to win is to hit the money....governments will lets their military and civilians die, but they won't let their wealth class get seriously hit in the pocket. Iran learnt that killing people is far less important than hitting their money.

Iran simply activated their main geographical strength over the strait and America/Israel had no answer once a troop invasion was off the table.

You would think that the guys paid the big bucks would be able to work this sh1t out.....but lobbyists and money do strange things to 'go alongs'.

 

[Stirlingsays]

And unfortunately he's right. They only respect real power.

It's talking tough with nothing to back it up.

If they don't stop and the strait gets closed down again, Trump could turn the money and weapons tap off....well that's the only leverage Trump has....if he actually has it due to other factors.

It's spicy.....and dangerous for Trump because of assassination attempts.

But Trump has no choice due to the economics.

 

[silvertop]

Trump is the first example for decades of someone willing to deescalate (even though the war was his fault) in decades. All we usually get is the double down and a worsening situation. But while Trump will obviously claim victory, this really is him taking a significant L.....but it's also him facing reality and making the correct choice.....there is no other realistic choice without economic collapse.

But just as the IRA discovered when they bombed the square mile (main financial district), the only way to win is to hit the money....governments will lets their military and civilians die, but they won't let their wealth class get seriously hit in the pocket. Iran learnt that killing people is far less important than hitting their money.

Iran simply activated their main geographical strength over the strait and America/Israel had no answer once a troop invasion was off the table.

You would think that the guys paid the big bucks would be able to work this sh1t out.....but lobbyists and money do strange things to 'go alongs'.

Big money spends big to make risks go away.

It will neutralise the Straits risk one way or many.

And when it does, Iran is doomed.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Big money spends big to make risks go away.

It will neutralise the Straits risk one way or many.

And when it does, Iran is doomed.

I've heard about alternative routes but I have no idea how realistic it is.

 

[silvertop]

It's talking tough with nothing to back it up.

If they don't stop and the strait gets closed down again, Trump could turn the money and weapons tap off....well that's the only leverage Trump has....if he actually has it due to other factors.

It's spicy.....and dangerous for Trump because of assassination attempts.

But Trump has no choice due to the economics.

The USA has overtly and covertly supported Israel for generations with cash, guns, intel and diplomacy.

They could have carried on in that vein for generations more with Congress blindly signing the cheques.

The mistake Trump made was stepping out of the shadows and getting their hands dirty at considerable cost to the taxpayer and betrayal of his non intervention mandate.

One unforeseen consequence given this fiasco along with Israel's attempt to ethnically cleanse the Gazans, the behaviour of some Israeli cabinet members to eg young Western boat protestors, their cocking a snoop to terms provisionally agreed between the US and Israel - for once all done as prime time domestic news in the US and not buried on page 8 in the New York Times - is that the US may stop writing the cheques blindly.

Of course the propping will continue. But not without deeper scrutiny and possibly conditions.

If the democrats get in, expect more of the conditions like Clinton imposed to check settlement land theft in the West Bank.

 

[silvertop]

I've heard about alternative routes but I have no idea how realistic it is.

I have no idea.

But I don't have to. They do.

Pipelines, other sources, other energy types, other routes, assassinations, sanctions, surgical commando raids/bombing, bribery, a combination of the above..?

It won't be done in a day. But the west and big money will not kowtow to that government any longer than it has to.

 

[chris123]

I've heard about alternative routes but I have no idea how realistic it is.

The Emirates and Qatar will be very keen on a solution too, they need to export as much as we need to import.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

ooops

"Iran says it is closing the Strait of Hormuz and accuses the US and Israel of violating the ceasefire"