Israel v Hamas

[HKOwen]

And hopefully Israel will hoof Netanyahu and his nut house cabinet into the Jordan River at the coming elections.

A safe Israel can have a govt that concentrates on development more than dealimng with existential threats

I don't see that any Hamas fighter or official can be allowed to remain in Gaza

There will then need decades of reversing the brainwashing of the children and young people

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

And hopefully Israel will hoof Netanyahu and his nut house cabinet into the Jordan River at the coming elections.

You mean the man whose actions have forced Hamas into a peace agreement?

Not so nuts if you ask me.

 

[silvertop]

BBS is in full TDS mode.

Trump is a fraud the peace deal is rubbish and wont work (despite multiple Arab states backing it) or if you prefer:

Trump is claiming credit for other people work e.g. it's a good deal so can't possibly be Trump.

They just hate the idea that Trump may actually pull this off, so much for their concern for the Palestinian people. If this had been Obama's deal (won Noble prize for bringing peace to the Middle East) they would be lauding it.

I normally keep out of this thread but any deal that stops both sides killing each other is never going to be perfect but it has to be better than what is happening now.

If the protestors really do care about Palestine then they will support the peace efforts. I wont hold my breath.

The protestors who support the peace process and an end to the butchery will be happy. The Islamist nutters who want to see Israel erased and all Jews killed will not.

Not a unified bunch.

And you will forgive me for pausing before I put the laurels on Donald. This is the same man who claimed credit for ending 7 "unending" wars - "Some people say I should win the Nobel Peace Prize". He then went on to list them. Closer inspection revealed that the USA can claim some credit for one of them. But the others? The conflicts are ongoing, featured a fictional country, involved an apparent war between two countries 4000 miles apart, the existence of which must have come as a great surprise to the respective inhabitants.

And he is throwing his not inconsiderable weight and the whole USA PR juggernaut behind the claim that the USA must take full credit for this. He will be landing in Israel any moment where I imagine his messianic majesty will have his ring (yes that one) kissed in public by the grateful throngs.

And let us not forget that he did not, in fact, do this alone. The Qataris deserve at least as much of the credit and, in addition, showed considerable courage in turning the cheek when Israel broke all international laws by bombing them in September.

And rather early to pop the corks. We have not even completed stage one of 20 in a century long conflict where the combative elements of each side remain determined to wholly eradicate the other.

That all said - and I am not begrudging but stating what I believe as also fact - Trump does deserve considerable credit for this. Biden tried the same approach but failed to realise that Israel will only comply with a gun to the head. Trump delivered that and his heel remains pressed firmly down to ensure ongoing compliance.

 

[silvertop]

You mean the man whose action have forced Hamas into a peace agreement?

Not so nuts if you ask me.

You have distorted all reality to fit your narrative.

 

[silvertop]

A safe Israel can have a govt that concentrates on development more than dealimng with existential threats

I don't see that any Hamas fighter or official can be allowed to remain in Gaza

There will then need decades of reversing the brainwashing of the children and young people

On both sides?

Take Israel. About 1200 killed and hundreds taken hostage on Oct 7. A nation justifiably outraged and seeking revenge which their government duly delivered.

But then carried on... and on... and on...

At least 67000 dead. But what do the Israelis care about? The hostages. The dead Palestinians they care not a jot. Why? Because their lives are of zero value. Why do they think that? Decades of brainwashing...

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

You have distorted all reality to fit your narrative.

So you think Hamas, the organisation who spent billions of pounds of charity from other countries, intended for Gaza, on their own infrastructure, would have come to the table without being forced to?

Do me a favour.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

On both sides?

Take Israel. About 1200 killed and hundreds taken hostage on Oct 7. A nation justifiably outraged and seeking revenge which their government duly delivered.

But then carried on... and on... and on...

At least 67000 dead. But what do the Israelis care about? The hostages. The dead Palestinians they care not a jot. Why? Because their lives are of zero value. Why do they think that? Decades of brainwashing...

Your 'objectivity' comes very close to picking a side.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Hamas always had to be removed. In my opinion. The military option selected was poor, at best.
Although we all wanted a (lasting) ceasefire, we are at that point now. Hopefully.
The trouble you have with the remaining Palestinian population, is you also have orphans, missing families, entire districts reduced to rubble. People will remember who did this to them. That will last for generations.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

Let's be honest. We wouldn't be having any chance of a peace deal if Israel hadn't bombed Hamas to the point where they have to negotiate.

I suspect the peace will last until Hamas regroup.

The peace will last as long as the ultra right parties propping up Netanyahu allow it to last. Which, I suspect, won’t be very long. Hamas will be blamed, of course. The only peace they will accept is when they are in total control of Gaza and building settlements along the coast, with any remaining Palestinians being employed in servile roles without any involvement in government or management.

 

[HKOwen]

On both sides?

Take Israel. About 1200 killed and hundreds taken hostage on Oct 7. A nation justifiably outraged and seeking revenge which their government duly delivered.

But then carried on... and on... and on...

At least 67000 dead. But what do the Israelis care about? The hostages. The dead Palestinians they care not a jot. Why? Because their lives are of zero value. Why do they think that? Decades of brainwashing...

At what point have you condemned the Oct 7th massacre and shown any empathy for the hostages, if you have I missed it.

 

[silvertop]

So you think Hamas, the organisation who spent billions of pounds of charity from other countries, intended for Gaza, on their own infrastructure, would have come to the table without being forced to?

Do me a favour.

They were forced; but by Qatar.

They are Islamists. They believe they are guided by Allah. He would have delivered them victory or martyrdom. To them there is no table. Israel can, therefore, bomb their people till they are no people.

And they would have done with impunity and zero conscience, but for Qatar and the USA.

 

[silvertop]

At what point have you condemned the Oct 7th massacre and shown any empathy for the hostages, if you have I missed it.

You are correct you have missed it, including the clear words "justifiably outraged" in the very post you replied to.

Now, there is seeing what you want to see, but that really is seeing what you want to see.

 

[HKOwen]

You are correct you have missed it, including the clear words "justifiably outraged" in the very post you replied to.

Now, there is seeing what you want to see, but that really is seeing what you want to see.

Or it means I missed it amongst your drivel.

Justifiably outraged sounds like something Starmer would say after the Manchester murders

 

[silvertop]

Your 'objectivity' comes very close to picking a side.

I cant pick between the Palestinian and Israeli people as I don't personally know them. Good and bad. Right and wrong. The usual human spectrum.

Sadly, I can't pick between those in notional control of both people either. Both sides are ruled by amoral, evil f*ckers with no discernible redeeming features. It is just that one has all the guns and all the power and is now doing all the killing.

Give it a decade, a modicum of peace and rebuilding and Palestinians commit an atrocity. I will condemn it without reservation, as I did Oct 7.

 

[silvertop]

Or it means I missed it amongst your drivel.

Justifiably outraged sounds like something Starmer would say after the Manchester murders

Funny, I don't recall being personal and rude about your post.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Your 'objectivity' comes very close to picking a side.

Why do you keep throwing this around when you have yourself very evidently picked a side..?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

2 years after the fact and people still throwing around ‘do you condemn October 7th!?’ like some sort of 2024 Piers Morgan impression.

Beyond parody.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Why do you keep throwing this around when you have yourself very evidently picked a side..?

Because I don't hide behind virtue signalling.

Hamas were and are the problem. They have been brought to heel and not before time.
I wouldn't trust them an inch, and I'll be surprised if they don't just regroup and start the war on Jews all over again.
Israel for its part has to stick to its promises, but when you have two sides so opposed and brainwashed into hating each other, it's hard to see either side committing to long term peace.

I pick a side because I put my country and its people first. Israel are our allies. Islamists are our enemy.
All other considerations are secondary.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Because I don't hide behind virtue signalling.

Hamas were and are the problem. They have been brought to heel and not before time.
I wouldn't trust them an inch, and I'll be surprised if they don't just regroup and start the war on Jews all over again.
Israel for its part has to stick to its promises, but when you have two sides so opposed and brainwashed into hating each other, it's hard to see either side committing to long term peace.

I pick a side because I put my country and its people first. Israel are our allies. Islamists are our enemy.
All other considerations are secondary.

Genuinely I respect your honesty, but unconditional support of a foreign government is not a principle I can agree with.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They were forced; but by Qatar.

They are Islamists. They believe they are guided by Allah. He would have delivered them victory or martyrdom. To them there is no table. Israel can, therefore, bomb their people till they are no people.

And they would have done with impunity and zero conscience, but for Qatar and the USA.

If that is accurate, that tells you all you need to know about Hamas and why they need to be destroyed.

They care not a jot for Palestinians and exist to kill Jews.

I'm not so sure that the Palestinians are quite so keen to die. Their faith might not be quite as solid as you think. The Hamas leadership hides in other countries. So much for their martyrdom.

Maybe they recently realised that they aren't so well hidden as they thought.