Israel v Hamas

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Genuinely I respect your honesty, but unconditional support of a foreign government is not a principle I can agree with.

You don't have to. But I bet you would be pleading for Israel to help if Islamists invaded Britain and were advancing through your town.

 

[silvertop]

If that is accurate, that tells you all you need to know about Hamas and why they need to be destroyed.

They care not a jot for Palestinians and exist to kill Jews.

I'm not so sure that the Palestinians are quite so keen to die. Their faith might not be quite as solid as you think. The Hamas leadership hides in other countries. So much for their martyrdom.

Maybe they recently realised that they aren't so well hidden as they thought.

Nor do most Israelis, it would seem, but I do.

That is all I have posted on this thread.

Simple minded posters take this as anti Jew or anti Israel. It is neither. It is being on the side of those who are being ethnically cleansed by a government doing it largely to remain in government; and/or to clear the place for "recovery" of land delivered to them by "God" of all non-chosen obstacles who are in the way.

Including Christians.

It is not defending the only western democracy in the middle east as they would disingenuously have you believe.

Oh and I would like Hamas to be destroyed as I did the IRA. It is in the method where our opinions divide.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Nor do most Israelis, it would seem, but I do.

That is all I have posted on this thread.

Simple minded posters take this as anti Jew or anti Israel. It is neither. It is being on the side of those who are being ethnically cleansed by a government doing it largely to remain in government; and/or to clear the place for "recovery" of land delivered to them by "God" of all non-chosen obstacles who are in the way.

Including Christians.

It is not defending the only western democracy in the middle east as they would disingenuously have you believe.

Oh and I would like Hamas to be destroyed as I did the IRA. It is in the method where our opinions divide.

That is a biased statement in itself.

Imagine 1200 Britons including women, children and babies being tortured, kidnapped and slaughtered in their own country by members of a neighbouring country.

How reasonable would you be?

The 'simple' fact is that we are talking about peace because Israel retaliated with full force.
You can claim it was Arab nations who forced Hamas into negotiations, but it is happening because Gaza has been levelled with no sign of the conflict stopping. Hamas is on the run.

You can bleat for ever more, but there are some realities that all the hand wringing in the world won't change.

The likes for your post say it all. Still waiting for Steeleye.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You don't have to. But I bet you would be pleading for Israel to help if Islamists invaded Britain and were advancing through your town.

‘You should support tens of thousands of children being killed, because if Islamists were advancing through South Norwood, you would be pleading to Israel for help’.

Genuinely WTF.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

With both sets of civilians celebrating the potential ceasefire, I found it particularly upsetting that Israeli's were lighting fireworks , as if that wasn't in extremely bad taste. And quaffing champagne, whilst Palestinians are still starving to death.

 

[Spiderman]

On both sides?

Take Israel. About 1200 killed and hundreds taken hostage on Oct 7. A nation justifiably outraged and seeking revenge which their government duly delivered.

But then carried on... and on... and on...

At least 67000 dead. But what do the Israelis care about? The hostages. The dead Palestinians they care not a jot. Why? Because their lives are of zero value. Why do they think that? Decades of brainwashing...

48 hostages to be released, well 20 and 28 corpses. Why have they not had the decency to release the corpses previously?

 

[Spiderman]

With both sets of civilians celebrating the potential ceasefire, I found it particularly upsetting that Israeli's were lighting fireworks , as if that wasn't in extremely bad taste. And quaffing champagne, whilst Palestinians are still starving to death.

Are they? Seek out the videos of aid being sold in local markets.

 

[Penge Eagle]

With both sets of civilians celebrating the potential ceasefire, I found it particularly upsetting that Israeli's were lighting fireworks , as if that wasn't in extremely bad taste. And quaffing champagne, whilst Palestinians are still starving to death.

Starving to death? Source?

 

[silvertop]

That is a biased statement in itself.

Imagine 1200 Britons including women, children and babies being tortured, kidnapped and slaughtered in their own country by members of a neighbouring country.

How reasonable would you be?

The 'simple' fact is that we are talking about peace because Israel retaliated with full force.
You can claim it was Arab nations who forced Hamas into negotiations, but it is happening because Gaza has been levelled with no sign of the conflict stopping. Hamas is on the run.

You can bleat for ever more, but there are some realities that all the hand wringing in the world won't change.

The likes for your post say it all. Still waiting for Steeleye.

Not really. A view shared by most thinking people including pretty much every western government and the UN.

However, if you believe the sun shining tomorrow is a biased statement, then you may have a point.

And it is not just Hamas who are on the run. It is men, women, children, Muslims, Christians, Hamas sympathizers, Hamas-haters able bodied, the disabled, old and young. Israel do not discriminate.

As to your question, not very reasonable. However, the difference between England and Israel is we would not be seeking to kill everyone in Wales (and it would be them!).

It is about proportion and humanity. The number of people supporting this mass extermination is a diminishing few. You are part of a very exclusive club.

And the use of that term highlighted is not biased either. It might be if the 67,000 dead were primarily combatants and/or had the ability to fight back. They are not and do not.

This attitude of shoulder-shrugging and c'est la guerre is fine, but only if you support neither side and don't care as it is far away and none of our business. However, you do. So, in my view, it is not.

Oh in my earlier post I forgot another factor. Israel properly f*cked up on Oct 7. An intelligence failure of such catastrophic proportions and a humiliation for a country that presented as one that knows when anyone coughs in Gaza. The viciousness and relentless of the attack seems ay least partly motivated by an effort to distract from that. However, I heard an interview with an Israeli today - a father of one of the hostages. He has not forgotten.

 

[silvertop]

48 hostages to be released, well 20 and 28 corpses. Why have they not had the decency to release the corpses previously?

Because they are disgusting.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

‘You should support tens of thousands of children being killed, because if Islamists were advancing through South Norwood, you would be pleading to Israel for help’.

Genuinely WTF.

Another one who only wants to win an argument and isn't interested in reality.
We would look foolish without our allies. Only a blinkered idiot can't see that.

You know precisely why children have died along with all the others. Admit it to yourself.

Don't start a war with barbaric mass torture and murder and then hide behind civilians if you want a good outcome.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Not really. A view shared by most thinking people including pretty much every western government and the UN.

However, if you believe the sun shining tomorrow is a biased statement, then you may have a point.

And it is not just Hamas who are on the run. It is men, women, children, Muslims, Christians, Hamas sympathizers, Hamas-haters able bodied, the disabled, old and young. Israel do not discriminate.

As to your question, not very reasonable. However, the difference between England and Israel is we would not be seeking to kill everyone in Wales (and it would be them!).

It is about proportion and humanity. The number of people supporting this mass extermination is a diminishing few. You are part of a very exclusive club.

And the use of that term highlighted is not biased either. It might be if the 67,000 dead were primarily combatants and/or had the ability to fight back. They are not and do not.

This attitude of shoulder-shrugging and c'est la guerre is fine, but only if you support neither side and don't care as it is far away and none of our business. However, you do. So, in my view, it is not.

Oh in my earlier post I forgot another factor. Israel properly f*cked up on Oct 7. An intelligence failure of such catastrophic proportions and a humiliation for a country that presented as one that knows when anyone coughs in Gaza. The viciousness and relentless of the attack seems ay least partly motivated by an effort to distract from that. However, I heard an interview with an Israeli today - a father of one of the hostages. He has not forgotten.

Here we go. Victim blaming.

For sure, it was a disaster for Israeli security to allow an attack on that level, but complacency always creeps into the most disciplined setup given enough time.

There has been no 'mass extermination.' There have been civilians being killed because they live around Hamas infrastructure. That is not to say there haven't been war crimes. That is a symptom of the contempt each side has for the other. Nevertheless, Hamas bears responsibility for the nature of the conflict.

You see, the problem for me is that I suspect you hide your true feelings by throwing in the odd bit of balance.
I can understand why Israel would want to kill every single Palestinian after October 7. But that hasn't happened.
You want to press the genocide angle and the idea that Israel is somehow the bad guy because they have superior firepower.
If Hamas weren't such cowardly scum, perhaps they might have protected their people rather than offered them as lambs to the slaughter while their leaders sat safely in their hiding places.

 

[cryrst]

Genuinely I respect your honesty, but unconditional support of a foreign government is not a principle I can agree with.

He didn’t say unconditional. He said the one who doesn’t want him dead or converted to a religion he doesn’t want to be.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

He didn’t say unconditional. He said the one who doesn’t want him dead or converted to a religion he doesn’t want to be.

They complain about accusations of supporting Hamas and then say you support the murder of children.

You have to love lefties.

I align with this country and it's allies. I don't even like what my government does, so I'm hardly likely to blindly approve of what Israel does. Understanding is not approving.

You cannot fight murdering fanatics with harsh language. I don't like the results any more than they do.

 

[Spindle]

Is that coward Maz still running the show?

Trust me he's one of the moderates.

They have some proper lefty dickheads in little cancellation gangs over there, backed up by chief egotist Alderhorst on the ban hammer.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Trust me he's one of the moderates.

They have some proper lefty dickheads in little cancellation gangs over there, backed up by chief egotist Alderhorst on the ban hammer.

Yeah, the mods basically ban anyone who stands up to the clique. Old news.
Maz can't handle losing an argument. He normally resorts to name calling. He even came on here to continue hostilities for a while.

I never waste my time going there these days.

 

[Spindle]

The protestors who support the peace process and an end to the butchery will be happy. The Islamist nutters who want to see Israel erased and all Jews killed will not.

Not a unified bunch.

And you will forgive me for pausing before I put the laurels on Donald. This is the same man who claimed credit for ending 7 "unending" wars - "Some people say I should win the Nobel Peace Prize". He then went on to list them. Closer inspection revealed that the USA can claim some credit for one of them. But the others? The conflicts are ongoing, featured a fictional country, involved an apparent war between two countries 4000 miles apart, the existence of which must have come as a great surprise to the respective inhabitants.

And he is throwing his not inconsiderable weight and the whole USA PR juggernaut behind the claim that the USA must take full credit for this. He will be landing in Israel any moment where I imagine his messianic majesty will have his ring (yes that one) kissed in public by the grateful throngs.

And let us not forget that he did not, in fact, do this alone. The Qataris deserve at least as much of the credit and, in addition, showed considerable courage in turning the cheek when Israel broke all international laws by bombing them in September.

And rather early to pop the corks. We have not even completed stage one of 20 in a century long conflict where the combative elements of each side remain determined to wholly eradicate the other.

That all said - and I am not begrudging but stating what I believe as also fact - Trump does deserve considerable credit for this. Biden tried the same approach but failed to realise that Israel will only comply with a gun to the head. Trump delivered that and his heel remains pressed firmly down to ensure ongoing compliance.

About 15% realistic

 

[Spindle]

2 years after the fact and people still throwing around ‘do you condemn October 7th!?’ like some sort of 2024 Piers Morgan impression.

Beyond parody.

Says the guy who has banged on about genocide and famine for a year, and before then I bet it was "open prison" and "apartheid"

Beyond parody

 

[Spindle]

Genuinely I respect your honesty, but unconditional support of a foreign government is not a principle I can agree with.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend.

These people are butchers, thank Jehovah he backed the Jews. Gods will.

 

[Spindle]

He didn’t say unconditional. He said the one who doesn’t want him dead or converted to a religion he doesn’t want to be.

He's an atheist isn't he? There's no opportunity to become Muslim, no conversion, he's simply to be killed.