Israel v Hamas
- Topic starter Forest Hillbilly
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- Surrey
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England
Well we got there in the end!
Israel is a Unites States ally – I find it astonishing how people do not know what that is and how it works.
Yes there are pro-Israel lobby groups in the US as there are many other lobby groups. But to blame the alliance between the two countries on "Jewish influence" is incredibly over simplified, lazy and veers into anti-Semitic conspiracy.
Yes, you got there in the end.
Much as you'd love that to be true, it just isn't but maybe you're the sole arbiter of who is and who isn't antisemitic.
There's nothing over-simplified about it; there is a strong, powerful Israel lobby in the USA. This doesn't mean that it is the 'sole' reason for the alliance but to underplay it is just plain silly.
Yes, I agree. It is astonishing that people don't know how this works.
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England
Well there's your issue. Bowen is basically a spokesman for Hamas, I don't think he's ever written an unbiased article. He's no reporter, he doesn't report news, he reports a narrative.
Qatar is loaded with modern anti air defenses. They have Patriot and THAAD from the USA, plus older Rapier systems (the UK still has these) and NASAMs made by Raytheon. Don't you think it strange that Israeli jets, which I am pretty sure would be F-15E models because of the stores they can carry, would be able to transit the 2300 mile round trip to Qatar and back?? The Eagle has an effective air to ground combat strike mission range of well under 1000 miles, that's with fuel bags, so it's going to need an in flight refueling which isn't stealthy and would be loitering over Arab nations. They would also need to transit Jordanian and Saudi airspace.
Back to those air defenses, why didn't they shoot? Qatar HAD to have them passive and they must've known because if they disallowed it then either you'd see IDF jets shot down or the IDF would've had to run a series of "Wild Weasel" SEAD missions with F-16s and F-35s to remove the threat and this would've been far harder than the Iranian incursion because the quality of Qatari air defence.
So now do you think that Bowen might be on a message? Only it doesn't take much reporter investigation to realise that this Qatari attack must've involved the Qatari's knowing.
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- Surrey
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England
You said: "The vast influence upon US politics by the Jewish diaspora in the States."
This implies a classic anti-Semitic trope of Jews controlling government or the media.
The alliance began during the Cold War, long before the strength of lobbyists.
It's interesting that in your analysis, you failed to mention that there are many factors. Not only are there perfectly legal pro-Israel lobbyists, but the US and Israel are allies, share military tech and intelligence, trade in arms and share the same Western values.
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- Surrey
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England
It's pretty well known that Jeremy Bowen is not an impartial journalist on this topic.
That was all inferred by my comment about Israel being the USA's agent in the levant.
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- Surrey
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England
If you’ve got a point, say it plainly instead of playing guessing games and dropping hints.
chris123
Member
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- hove actually
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England
Lyse Doucet, also reported on the BBC newscast on the same day, or is it the whole of the BBC? If Qatar has the same capability as Israel how come their defence systems were penetrated?
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- Surrey
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England
The Qatar defences are not as battle-hardened as Israel's but I think they were simply caught off guard.
I did but you couldn't/wouldn't join the dots. Not that difficult, really, mate.
No guessing games. Calm down.
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- Surrey
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England
Alternatively....🙄
silvertop
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- Portishead
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England
Sorry to butt in but I saw my name mentioned and...
There is little doubt that the Jewish lobby in the US presses hard for Israel, as one would expect.
Jews number only around 10 million in the US, but they punch well above their weight in terms of power and influence. That is intended as a compliment.
But, as such, they exert disproportionate influence on policy, whoever is in power over there. That sounds like Jewish conspiracy but is a simple statement of what is. Like pensioners exerting considerable power over here due to their voting habits and numbers.
But for the Republicans there is another greater force that sits in uneasy alliance on Israel with the Jews. 25% of Americans describe themselves as evangelical Christians. Their views on life are wholly contained within the Bible. The Bible said the land was given to the Jews by God. That is it. Black and white. No argument. As such, anything Israel inflicts on the poor Palestinian (Including bombing hospitals, schools, even Christian churches) is mandated by God.
So, retrospective justifications on here about revenge for 9/11, creating a Caliphate, supporting the one island of western democracy etc. do not feature in their thinking. The only consideration is: God said it.
Unlike much of the other 75% of Americans who turn up in dribs and drabs at the polling station, they ALL vote; they ALL vote Republican; and they ALL demand 100% support for whatever Israel does.
Thus, the US gives Israel carte blanche. They cannot be an independent arbiter in this dispute. And unless the world wants to team up and take out the Americans, all it can do is stand by and tut at moderate but respectful volume from time to time.
chris123
Member
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- hove actually
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England
Just don't get caught off guard
CPFCSaturn
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England
"There is no evidence of ethnic cleansing in Gaza"
____
Israel's finance minister Bezalel Smotrich has said the Gaza Strip could be a "real estate bonanza" and that he is in talks with the US about dividing up the territory after the war - an idea previously condemned internationally.
Speaking at an event in Tel Aviv, he said "a business plan is on President Trump's table".
"We've done the demolition phase... Now we need to build," he said.
"We paid a lot of money for this war," said Smotrich. "So we need to divide how we make a percentage on the land marketing later".
He said the plan would involve "applying Israeli sovereignty" to approximately 82% of the West Bank, adding that this was in line with the principle of "maximum land with minimum Arabs".
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Israel's finance minister Bezalel Smotrich has said the Gaza Strip could be a "real estate bonanza" and that he is in talks with the US about dividing up the territory after the war - an idea previously condemned internationally.
Speaking at an event in Tel Aviv, he said "a business plan is on President Trump's table".
"We've done the demolition phase... Now we need to build," he said.
"We paid a lot of money for this war," said Smotrich. "So we need to divide how we make a percentage on the land marketing later".
He said the plan would involve "applying Israeli sovereignty" to approximately 82% of the West Bank, adding that this was in line with the principle of "maximum land with minimum Arabs".