Israel v Hamas

[silvertop]

You make a dishonest comparison. In WW2 London was bombed indiscriminately while in Gaza, Hamas deliberately embeds itself among civilians and fires rockets from schools, hospitals etc.

There is zero evidence of Israel having an official policy to annihilate Palestinians.

Precisely the same.

 

[silvertop]

Supplanted? Jews are indigenous to the land.

You call Israel "far from a civilized Western democracy," yet you ignore the obvious: it is the only functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East.

Every government with war and terrorism on its border makes mistakes, so to think Israel is any different shows your bias. They are not at war with Denmark or Finland, they have the challenge of fighting groups that have openly stated they want it wiped off the map.

I'm not sure what the US has to do with Israel's right to exist? It appears to show your anti-West (UK, US, Israel) stance.

They lost that status when they ceased to behave like one.

Palestinians are indigenous to the area too. Their lineage is as old as the Jewish tribes. Only they were not absent for millennia. Not their fault, of course. But hardly the fault of the other non-Jewish tribes who shared the land and morphed into the Palestinian.

 

[georgenorman]

You told me you were old school C of E and were a believer. Were you not telling the truth?

Israel have killed north of twice the number of people killed by the Luftwaffe in the Blitz. Of those, the majority have no desire to establish a world wide Caliphate, are not pledged to kill all Jews and just want to get on with their lives. That number includes thousands of Christians and innumerable children too young to hold such views. Given your rationale, do you worry about them?

And have you considered what chance chance Palestinians have of establishing a world wide Caliphate. Absolutely none. It is a fantasy for a radical few.

These are not good grounds for supporting genocide.

Show me what I actually said. I may have said I put C of E on forms when asked. I think I may have also said that belief in God appears to be optional with the C of E these days. What are you by the way, Sunni or Shia?
It’s irrelevant anyway. I’ve no idea whether your quoted figures are correct or not. There were cheering crowds in Gaza when the corpses of naked, raped girls were paraded through the streets that are now being bombed. The residents took time out of “just getting on with their lives “ to spit on the corpses and chant “Allah ackbar” and “kill all Jews” and “ death to Israel” and “ death to the USA”.
It’s a war. It comes down to which side you want to win.

 

[HKOwen]

They lost that status when they ceased to behave like one.

Palestinians are indigenous to the area too. Their lineage is as old as the Jewish tribes. Only they were not absent for millennia. Not their fault, of course. But hardly the fault of the other non-Jewish tribes who shared the land and morphed into the Palestinian.

There has never been an absence of Jews in the area, numbers up and down over the course of history.

Fact check done

 

[cryrst]

What would you accept as evidence of ethnic cleansing in Gaza?

Evidence !!!!!

 

[HKOwen]

Evidence !!!!!

Exactly, no Palestinians in Gaza would be ethnic cleansing

 

[HKOwen]

What would you accept as evidence of ethnic cleansing in Gaza?

Run hammy run

 

[Penge Eagle]

What would you accept as evidence of ethnic cleansing in Gaza?

How about an independent investigation after the war has finished?

 

[Penge Eagle]

I suggest that real politik has the USA wanting Israel's right to exist and act as their agent in the levant?

No?

Just as Iran wants Hamas as their agents.

No?

What do you mean?

 

[Glazier#1]

Supplanted? Jews are indigenous to the land.

You call Israel "far from a civilized Western democracy," yet you ignore the obvious: it is the only functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East.

Every government with war and terrorism on its border makes mistakes, so to think Israel is any different shows your bias. They are not at war with Denmark or Finland, they have the challenge of fighting groups that have openly stated they want it wiped off the map.

I'm not sure what the US has to do with Israel's right to exist? It appears to show your anti-West (UK, US, Israel) stance.

Ooh. careful. 'Liberal' is a dirty word on this site, is it not?

 

[Penge Eagle]

The evidence is in the words of senior Israeli politicians but I guess we will see with time if they carry it out. Right now, neither of us know.

You also subscribe to the view that those who do not support Israel must, by definition, support Hamas. As I said to Cryst: too binary. So I will repeat my position just so you know what page I am on.

Those responsible for Oct 7 - before during and after the fact - appalling excuses for humanity all.

My fantasy - arrest, charge and - if convicted though due process - punish to the full extent of Israeli law.

My reality - kill every last mother-fvcking one of them. Not a wink of sleep would I lose after what they did. I will even accept, given the very difficult logistics - a degree of collateral casualty.

But they number HUNDREDS.

Israel have killed TENS OF HOUSANDS. And are continuing to do so.

Mission creep. First revenge/defence. Then ethnic cleansing and land grab.

It is for those who did nothing wrong that I argue. The question is: why do you not?

Simply saying Hamas started it does not stop the fact that they have not being doing it. For years. If I painfully flick you in the eye, are you justified in bludgeoning me to death; and then killing my wife, kids, extended family; and the bloke who does my dry cleaning?

And your understanding of international law is correct if you can prove that e.g. an active hospital was used for military purposes e.g. firing rockets from it. Not just hiding there. That is not sufficient to lose the hospital's protected status.

As above, I don't know for sure as the facts are hidden. Neither do you. But the truth can't be hidden forever.

Yes, nobody knows right now. But as it stands, the conflict fails to meet the definition of genocide. The ICJ has not ruled on it.

I'm sorry, but when posters on here have downplayed what Hamas did on Oct 7... and others consistently criticise the IDF and not apply it equally to the terrorists, then it doesn't take a genius to work out that pushing Hamas stats and their other talking points = a sympathy for Hamas and/or a blind hatred of Jews.

I repeat, Israel does not want Gaza.

It's brain dead to think that whoever loses the most casualties in a war are the good guys.

Only the Iron Dome stops Israel from being "bludgeoned to death". Your point about proportionality in its response is another anti-Israel talking point. I find it astonishing that after the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust you say Israel is going OTT in its response. Can you imagine if it happened to any other country, nobody would say this.

 

[Penge Eagle]

Ooh. careful. 'Liberal' is a dirty word on this site, is it not?

Time to put the bottle of wine away I think.