Israel v Hamas

[georgenorman]

I've forgotten what is real and what is a conspiracy theory these days.

I think we are in a post-reality epoch. But eventually reality always asserts itself.

 

[eaglesdare]

So Israel can plant exploding phones on operatives for a year and blow them up at a time of their choosing but they can't know the plans of a massive operation that even other intelligence services (Egypt) say they warned them about?

It's already been reported in Israel that they did know of these plans and the excuses given seem pretty unrealistic to me.

IDF knew of Hamas's plan to kidnap 250 before October 7 attack - report

The IDF had precise information about Hamas's intentions, but due to prevailing conceptions in the security establishment and possible negligence by officials, the warning signs were not acted on.

www.jpost.com

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

But Israel's PM describes any claim it received a specific warning as "totally fake news".

www.bbc.com

I actually thought that was pretty cool to be honest.

I see your point sterling. And I generally agree with 99 percent of your views. It is possible what you say and I am open to being wrong if I am but I highly highly doubt it. The IDF like any military is prone to mistakes and their intelligence failures do not imply intent.

I mean like a post above has said there was the 9/11 airplanes and then the 7/7 bombings. Failings by the US intelligence and by the British intelligence but I highly doubt they both involved in them. Also the recent assassination attempt on Trump. Failings by the secret service and intelligence.

Im sure Hamas had plenty of plans and it was up to the IDF to stop them. Which ones do you know are real? We don't know the intelligence.

 

[ASCPFC]

I think we are in a post-reality epoch. But eventually reality always asserts itself.

Rather poignant when considering Hamas and the Palestinian people in some ways.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I actually thought that was pretty cool to be honest.

I see your point sterling. And I generally agree with 99 percent of your views. It is possible what you say and I am open to being wrong if I am but I highly highly doubt it. The IDF like any military is prone to mistakes and their intelligence failures do not imply intent.

I mean like a post above has said there was the 9/11 airplanes and then the 7/7 bombings. Failings by the US intelligence and by the British intelligence but I highly doubt they both involved in them. Also the recent assassination attempt on Trump. Failings by the secret service and intelligence.

Im sure Hamas had plenty of plans and it was up to the IDF to stop them. Which ones do you know are real? We don't know the intelligence.

That's cool, maybe you're right, but for me it doesn't pass the sniff test.

After this whole thing is over old Netty is facing a lot of political trouble and blame.....I wouldn't be surprised if he left the country or turned authoritarian.....the latter probably being unrealistic but hey....kinda fun in this new sick world we live in.

 

[georgenorman]

That's cool, maybe you're right, but for me it doesn't pass the sniff test.

After this whole thing is over old Netty is facing a lot of political trouble and blame.....I wouldn't be surprised if he left the country or turned authoritarian.....the latter probably being unrealistic but hey....kinda fun in this new sick world we live in.

I know his form hasn't been that good since coming from Arsenal and you are right that he needs to dictate play more.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think we are in a post-reality epoch. But eventually reality always asserts itself.

Intelligence agencies can destroy evidence (as I think happened with Kennedy) but eventually the echoes of what's happened drift into public conscience by the amount of indirect evidence......Who benefits is always a powerful indicator....Kennedy had made a lot of powerful enemies....Like Trump, like Musk has.

Personally, I seriously hope I'm wrong but I think Trump gets whacked during or after the presidency.

I think there are things that haven't been acknowledged about 9/11 and I also think that wacky conspiracy theories have been encouraged by the agencies to discredit anything closer to the mark.

 

[kevlee]

Intelligence agencies can destroy evidence (as I think happened with Kennedy) but eventually the echoes of what's happened drift into public conscience by the amount of indirect evidence......Who benefits is always a powerful indicator....Kennedy had made a lot of power enemies....Like Trump has.

Personally, I seriously hope I'm wrong but I think Trump gets whacked during or after the presidency.

I think there are things that haven't been acknowledged about 9/11 and I also think that wacky conspiracy theories have been encouraged by the agencies to discredit anything closer to the mark.

Re Trump assassination- it has to be on the cards. I hope your wrong as well but his problem is that Americans love their guns and he is 100% behind the gun lobby. What we have learned is that oddball American plus gun = shootings whether it’s a school church or president

 

[Penge Eagle]

I think it's reasonable to question the humanity of anyone still supportive of Israel's actions, yes.

What do you mean 'hold Hamas accountable'?

Lets take the example where the IDF claimed the ambulances were acting suspiciously and that's why they had to blow them all up and bury them in a mass grave, only for video footage to emerge showing that to be a complete lie. But of course, that was just a one-off and they happened to get caught. Every other time the ambulances must be transporting fighters or off to blow something up.

There is considerable evidence of the IDF sniping civilians, including children - there are a huge volume of reports from medical professionals, aid organisations and journalists all making the same claims. Obviously when you reject information from anybody except the IDF, it's easy to conclude there is no evidence.

Not once have I suggested that there should be no civilians deaths or that is the standard I expect of Israel - that's a complete strawman.

Just because I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself, it doesn't mean I support every action it takes. It's absolutely right to hold Israel and Hamas or any military accountable. But questioning the humanity of anyone who still supports Israel’s actions just shuts down the dialogue.

Your claim that there is "considerable evidence" of systematic sniping of civilians by the IDF is overstated without any supporting evidence. I don't think you should assume that every military action is conducted in bad faith. Urban warfare brings up complex challenges and it's the Palestinians who ultimately suffer from Hamas operating in civilian areas.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Re Trump assassination- it has to be on the cards. I hope your wrong as well but his problem is that Americans love their guns and he is 100% behind the gun lobby. What we have learned is that oddball American plus gun = shootings whether it’s a school church or president

True, it could be an opportunist oddball, foreign agent or something darker.

 

[steeleye20]

The zionist system does not have an off-switch, it clings to genocidal rituals but it isn't fighting Hamas anymore, it's fighting reality, it is violence with violence as a goal.

Zionism doesn't do moderation or diplomacy, it is conquer or collapse.

Above all there is no financial support for a destructive psycho case apart another one, the United States of America.

Recognition of the Palestinian State may be necessary for the west if it is to trade with the holders of wealth the Gulf states.

It will be interesting to see if France and the UK do actually recognise the Palestine State over the next few weeks.

The global south, the GCC, China, it doesn't mean that because they are not sucked into this, that they are not re-aligning around systems, not violence, and driving the future of the region.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The zionist system does not have an off-switch, it clings to genocidal rituals but it isn't fighting Hamas anymore, it's fighting reality, it is violence with violence as a goal.

Zionism doesn't do moderation or diplomacy, it is conquer or collapse.

Above all there is no financial support for a destructive psycho case apart another one, the United States of America.

Recognition of the Palestinian State may be necessary for the west if it is to trade with the holders of wealth the Gulf states.

It will be interesting to see if France and the UK do actually recognise the Palestine State over the next few weeks.

The global south, the GCC, China, it doesn't mean that because they are not sucked into this, that they are not re-aligning around systems, not violence, and driving the future of the region.

Zionism is not genocide and to say this disrespects real genocides.

Israel does have diplomacy as it has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan and normalised relations with the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan.

Psycho case? What does that make Hamas? The US supports Israel because it's an ally who is helpful in the fight against Iran and other Jihadists in that region.

Erm, China is literally running concentration camps for Uyghur Muslims!

 

[georgenorman]

Zionism is not genocide and to say this disrespects real genocides.

Israel does have diplomacy as it has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan and normalised relations with the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan.

Psycho case? What does that make Hamas? The US supports Israel because it's an ally who is helpful in the fight against Iran and other Jihadists in that region.

Erm, China is literally running concentration camps for Uyghur Muslims!

Yes, it is quite incredible what Comrade S. comes out with.

 

[HKOwen]

The person with the biggest stick always wins.

It's just a matter of how much 'collateral' damage the big stick are going to give, or the losers are going to take.

Has ever been thus since man first picked up a stick, it's the nature of things

 

[HKOwen]

Yes, it is quite incredible what Comrade S. comes out with.

He is consistent in his Corbyn like racism. I'll give him that .albeit I can't accept his view

A true believer in river to the sea

 

[Spindle]

No one is going to shed any tears over the Hamas leader being killed.

However he WILL be added to the "innocent civilian" list published by the leaders of Gaza, and that number is parroted on here.

It's as if ALL deaths were innocents at the hands of the brutal IDF, without question

 

[Spindle]

This has gone far beyond eradicating Hamas and is quite clearly an attempt to remove or displace an entire population.

It has gone beyond politics. It is a humanitarian issue.

I have asked several times for an explanation for the lack of outrage and accusation as to why the number of Jews living across the Arab world has fallen from 1 million to under 4000 in the last 60 years.