Israel v Hamas

[Stirlingsays]

It is clear HAMAS has not been eradicated in Gaza, just look at the horrific scenes when hostages were handed over.

A lot more pest control needed.

Under this reasoning didn't the UK have cause to bomb parts of the Republic over IRA attacks?

The history of the UK is literally multiple state solutions.

 

[HKOwen]

Under this reasoning didn't the UK have cause to bomb parts of the Republic over IRA attacks?

The history of the UK is literally multiple state solutions.

I am referring to the continuing military capability of HAMAS, not the previous posts on method of killing.

 

[HKOwen]

Maybe if Hamas didn’t stash themselves and their equipment in hospitals they wouldn’t get targeted. Just saying !

This is exactly the point, human shields etc etc, HAMAS simply do not care about deaths , they only want to see the destruction of Israel

 

[CPFCSaturn]

This is all well & good, BUT, according to various posters on here, it's all about the 'thousands' of a certain demographic children that gets killed, according to them & that reliable 'Health Authority'

Do you dispute that thousands of Palestinian children have been killed? A simple yes or no will do.

I find these posts hopping on a pin-head about how many thousands are dead and who provides the figures pretty abhorrent - anyone with half a brain can look at the level of destruction and know that thousands are dead.

Unless anyone is seriously contesting that they don't think thousands of innocents are dead (I'd love to see someone make a case for that), I think this posturing on numbers is utterly shameless.

 

[HKOwen]

Do you dispute that thousands of Palestinian children have been killed? A simple yes or no will do.

I find these posts hopping on a pin-head about how many thousands are dead and who provides the figures pretty abhorrent - anyone with half a brain can look at the level of destruction and know that thousands are dead.

Unless anyone is seriously contesting that they don't think thousands of innocents are dead (I'd love to see someone make a case for that), I think this posturing on numbers is utterly shameless.

Ironically you are posturing on numbers. Tens, hundreds, thousands.....one four month old baby, it's all equally terrible.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I am referring to the continuing military capability of HAMAS, not the previous posts on method of killing.

Yeah, but that's the Vietcong argument. To kill off Hamas you have to kill the entire people. Essentially the Palestinians are a radicalised people for obvious reasons.

My point was that the British decided that a bad peace was better than attacking those who are essentially their ethnic brethen.....In fact the British attacking Ireland was never even something we countenanced.

I get that Israel have decided enough is enough.....Something that Austria painter also decided. However, what annoys me is the double standard. All the talk of principles is laid bare as just verbal decoration because essentially the reality is my friend gets to do what they want while I condemn my enemy.

Fine, I know that's how the real world works.....But I don't like the pretence sold to us that it's any different.

Cromwell wanted his self portrait to be 'warts and all', and that honesty was one of his few good points.

 

[Eagleman13]

Do you dispute that thousands of Palestinian children have been killed? A simple yes or no will do.

I find these posts hopping on a pin-head about how many thousands are dead and who provides the figures pretty abhorrent - anyone with half a brain can look at the level of destruction and know that thousands are dead.

Unless anyone is seriously contesting that they don't think thousands of innocents are dead (I'd love to see someone make a case for that), I think this posturing on numbers is utterly shameless.

Yes

 

[HKOwen]

Yeah, but that's the Vietcong argument. To kill off Hamas you have to kill the entire people. Essentially the Palestinians are a radicalised people for obvious reasons.

My point was that the British decided that a bad peace was better than attacking those who are essentially their ethnic brethen.....In fact the British attacking Ireland was never even something we countenanced.

I get that Israel have decided enough is enough.....Something that Austria painter also decided. However, what annoys me is the double standard. All the talk of principles is laid bare as just verbal decoration because essentially the reality is my friend gets to do what they want while I condemn my enemy.

Fine, I know that's how the real world works.....But I don't like the pretence sold to us that it's any different.

Cromwell wanted his self portrait to be 'warts and all', and that honesty was one of his few good points.

Vietcong killed plenty of their own, rather apples and pears comparison, VC were fighting for unification high level

 

[Penge Eagle]

Do you dispute that thousands of Palestinian children have been killed? A simple yes or no will do.

I find these posts hopping on a pin-head about how many thousands are dead and who provides the figures pretty abhorrent - anyone with half a brain can look at the level of destruction and know that thousands are dead.

Unless anyone is seriously contesting that they don't think thousands of innocents are dead (I'd love to see someone make a case for that), I think this posturing on numbers is utterly shameless.

Do you think less children would be killed in this war if Hamas did not deliberately hide in schools and hospitals and fire rockets from civilian areas? A simple yes or no answer.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Do you think less children would be killed in this war if Hamas did not deliberately hide in schools and hospitals and fire rockets from civilian areas? A simple yes or no answer.

Yes, I do.

But we're now back to that question as to whether it's reasonable for militaries to bomb the s*** out of civilians if it achieves a military objective - I, along with IHL, don't think it is.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Yes

Too far gone.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Vietcong killed plenty of their own, rather apples and pears comparison, VC were fighting for unification high level

Well yeah, but the Jews originate from that same land so they can hardly claim that they aren't killing their own....the genetic differences between Jews and Palestinians are minimal unless we are talking about European Jews....where's it's still there but less.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Yes, I do.

But we're now back to that question as to whether it's reasonable for militaries to bomb the s*** out of civilians if it achieves a military objective - I, along with IHL, don't think it is.

On a moral level sure.

However this is the game the media play. Anyone with brains knows that all civilian infrastructure is dual use. The military also use these places.

It's called total war, there is no 'oh we would never use 'insert supposedly sacred place'.

Israel knows it looks terrible and that plenty of innocent people are dying, but they are taking advantage of the fact that no one is going to do anything. The Arab states have seemingly decided....in the ultimate analysis, to let it happen and at the end of the day that's their decision.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

Yes, I do.

But we're now back to that question as to whether it's reasonable for militaries to bomb the s*** out of civilians if it achieves a military objective - I, along with IHL, don't think it is.

Because it would have worked in Northern Ireland.
Look at the 5hltstorm over Bloody Sunday, just because a few 'so called' civilians happened to get in the way of a fire-fight

Carpet bombing is not minimising Civilian casualties. But the additional bonus is that those surviving civilians now have nowhere to live, and you can just shove them off to become a problem for someone else , that the military have created

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Because it would have worked in Northern Ireland.
Look at the 5hltstorm over Bloody Sunday, just because a few 'so called' civilians happened to get in the way of a fire-fight

Carpet bombing is not minimising Civilian casualties. But the additional bonus is that those surviving civilians now have nowhere to live, and you can just shove them off to become a problem for someone else , that the military have created

Logic on here seems to suggest that the British Army should've just levelled Derry and everyone within it.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

On a moral level sure.

However this is the game the media play. Anyone with brains knows that all civilian infrastructure is dual use. The military also use these places.

It's called total war, there is no 'oh we would never use 'insert supposedly sacred place'.

Israel knows it looks terrible and that plenty of innocent people are dying, but they are taking advantage of the fact that no one is going to do anything. The Arab states have seemingly decided....in the ultimate analysis, to let it happen and at the end of the day that's their decision.

Agreed.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Because it would have worked in Northern Ireland.
Look at the 5hltstorm over Bloody Sunday, just because a few 'so called' civilians happened to get in the way of a fire-fight

Carpet bombing is not minimising Civilian casualties. But the additional bonus is that those surviving civilians now have nowhere to live, and you can just shove them off to become a problem for someone else , that the military have created

I think the fact that Israel are allowed to kill their enemies without consequence while the rest of the world....including us, haven't been allowed to do that is the glaring double standard.

That prat Starmer lets his judiciary prosecute our ex military for debatable actions carried out in the heat of stressful situations all while he coos at nation states doing stuff on mass scales.

It's nice when you get to cherry pick when you apply principles.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The lesson no one should need to learn....and that's older than the Bible that teaches it, is that money is the root of all evil....Well, a lot of evil, not all of it, as people are messed up.....a better summary is that money makes the world go round.

When you can fund your potential enemies and buy off powerful states you get to do what you want....mostly.

The only difference between governments and the mafia is that one taxes you and pretends to care about you while the other extorts you.

 

[Eagleman13]

Too far gone.

?????

 

[Penge Eagle]

Yes, I do.

But we're now back to that question as to whether it's reasonable for militaries to bomb the s*** out of civilians if it achieves a military objective - I, along with IHL, don't think it is.

Ok great. Do you accept that in bombing campaigns during a war that civilians will unfortunately be killed in error. A simple yes or no.