Iran

[Hrolf The Ganger]

They aren't my enemies. Depends what kind of world you want to live in I guess. Reading some of your posts it's fairly apparent what kind of world that is.

What does that mean? I don't decide who our enemies are.

If you think we will ever live in peace, holding hands together, then you need to stop smoking the crack.

 

[elgin eeagle]

What does that mean? I don't decide who our enemies are.

If you think we will ever live in peace, holding hands together, then you need to stop smoking the crack.

What a lame reply. We will never have peace all the time the US and Israel think they can rule the world through aggression.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

What a lame reply. We will never have peace all the time the US and Israel think they can rule the world through aggression.

That's just rubbish. There will never be peace all the time there are humans.
You actually think that the USA are the problem? The leaders of the free world. I suppose you would have preferred Hitler, Hirohito, Khrushchev or Stalin calling the shots. Perhaps a nice Ayatollah in charge?

Give me a break.

I'd phone your Russian estate agent sharpish and move there as soon as.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The USA gave their 15 point plan, Iran gave their 10 point plan.

I am not sure where Israel sit in this. Was it ever a tri-partite arrangement?

As presented in the media it is like looking at Russia and Ukraine demands......Both are talking different languages when it comes to finding an agreement.

I certainly wouldn't agree to leaving a strait controlled and charged by Iran.

It's untenable.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

As presented in the media it is like looking at Russia and Ukraine demands......Both are talking different languages when it comes to finding an agreement.

I certainly wouldn't agree to leaving a strait controlled and charged by Iran.

It's untenable.

Whether we agree with the war or not, this highlights why the Straits of Hormuz must be protected.
This is the perfect time to take control of it. There might not be a better one any time soon.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I don't like what Hrolf is saying, but he may well be right. This is the new world order.

Meanwhile, who's going to rein in the Israel Government. ? Someone is giving them the weapons to do all this killing. The USA can't just say "it's nothing to do with us".

 

[Stirlingsays]

Whether we agree with the war or not, this highlights why the Straits of Hormuz must be protected.
This is the perfect time to take control of it. There might not be a better one any time soon.

If Iran won't do it then it'll have to be done by a willing coalition.

Wars have started over less.....Continued this results in global recession and even much higher energy prices than the ridiculous current level.

But this is all Trump's mess and I resent it.

 

[silvertop]

You've lost me with the couple comment.
Most of the Ukraine didn't want autonomy, they all speak Russian and had a democratically elected leader in Yanokovych that the people in the east voted in via the Party of the Regions and were happy with.

The problem was he didn't want European integration which pissed off the young idiots in the west of the country. Enter the west with another eventual colour revolution and the rest is bloody history.

Since then you've had 12 years of constant anti russian propaganda on Ukrainian television and most in the East have left or fear conscription to the military. It won't end anytime soon because like I said before, the Ukraine is existential to Russians. It's always been Russian and will always be Russian. The west has no claim to it whatsoever no matter what bullshit the BBC fabricates.

Its got nothing to do with territory either, Russia has more territory than it knows what to do with. Its very valid security guarantees were constantly ignored by NATO though, and that matters a great deal to them. One day you will see all this is true. Or maybe you won't as unless you venture deeply into telegram you won't read or hear the other side of the story.

Personally I don't care and am only on this thread to read about Iran and hope they give Trump and Israel several bloody noses.

29% claiming it as their first language.

Much I agree with.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I don't like what Hrolf is saying, but he may well be right. This is the new world order.

Meanwhile, who's going to rein in the Israel Government. ? Someone is giving them the weapons to do all this killing. The USA can't just say "it's nothing to do with us".

I think it's fairly obvious why Israel are doing what they are doing. The BBC make it sound like it's all unprovoked.
I would advise Israel's enemies to stop firing missiles at them and talking about killing all Jews and then the killing might stop.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

29% claiming it as their first language.

Much I agree with.

So language is now the measure? In that case, I want America back.

There was absolutely no justification for an attack on Ukraine whatever shenanigans was going on there.

You lefties and Commie lovers are effectively supporting the murder of civilians in a country that offered no threat.
Meanwhile, you criticise Israel and the US for attacking enemies that promote terrorism, Islamism and fund groups that attack them.

I await a lot of old guff about... because Trump.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

If Iran won't do it then it'll have to be done by a willing coalition.

Wars have started over less.....Continued this results in global recession and even much higher energy prices than the ridiculous current level.

But this is all Trump's mess and I resent it.

He has presented the opportunity. We need to take it.

 

[Stirlingsays]

He has presented the opportunity. We need to take it.

Personally for me to support a war I have to be prepared to put skin in the game.....in other words would you put your son in the war. It's why I support so few wars....it has to be existential to some degree.

I mean I can see a reason now.....because we are forced into it.

But I see no original justification to start the war.

We have been placed into a sh1t position where good people are going to die to just get back to the situation pre-war.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I mean I can see a reason now.....because we are forced into it.

But I see no original justification to start the war.

We have been placed into a sh1t position where good people are going to die to just get back to the situation pre-war.

That really depends on whether you think that Iran were working to get nuclear capability. To me, it's obvious that they were. Why wouldn't they want parity with their regional enemy?
There is also the continual threat to our interests abroad and the promotion of terrorism at home.

I don't buy this stuff about looking good at home or distracting from the Epstein thing. This was the culmination of a strategy that has been in works for years.

In WW1 and 2, America were compelled to change their isolationist stance to get involved in conflict. That convinced them to become proactive rather than reactive. We had the war on communism and now its about China and the Islamist threat.

However much you prefer pacificism, history has shown us that doing nothing is sometimes the worst choice, at least in the shorter term. The long term is not for us to worry about. We will be dead.

As far as putting my son in a war. I would never encourage him to join the army but in a major war, he would be drafted. I wouldn't get a choice.

 

[Stirlingsays]

That really depends on whether you think that Iran were working to get nuclear capability. To me, it's obvious that they were. Why wouldn't they want parity with their regional enemy?
There is also the continual threat to our interests abroad and the promotion of terrorism at home.

I don't buy this stuff about looking good at home or distracting from the Epstein thing. This was the culmination of a strategy that has been in works for years.

In WW1 and 2, America were compelled to change their isolationist stance to get involved in conflict. That convinced them to become proactive rather than reactive. We had the war on communism and now its about China and the Islamist threat.

However much you prefer pacificism, history has shown us that doing nothing is sometimes the worst choice, at least in the shorter term. The long term is not for us to worry about. We will be dead.

As far as putting my son in a war. I would never encourage him to join the army but in a major war, he would be drafted. I wouldn't get a choice.

How does Iran getting a nuclear weapon effect us? North Korea has a nuclear weapon and there aren't threatening us are they. Their natural enemy is the US. Are we going to war everytime a state we don't like gets close to obtaining a nuke?

Surely the better answer is that Israel has to negotiate with its neighbours rather than going to war against them. Trump wants us as his b1tch country that he can bully into his own wars.

What I see with Israel, is them using another much more powerful military to do its dirty work for it.....by paying politicians off essentially.....and maybe blackmail. As I say, Israel should find a way of agreement.....but instead it chooses to ride or die....but it ends up with the US blaming us for not supporting their interests.

Your son might be drafted yeah, but would you support that to engage in a war that really doesn't involve our interests.

I mean it does now......but this situation was forced onto us with a war of choice.

 

[elgin eeagle]

29% claiming it as their first language.

Much I agree with.

It used to be a lot higher. The Nazis don't allow it to be taught in schools anymore.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

How does Iran getting a nuclear weapon effect us? North Korea has a nuclear weapon and there aren't threatening us are they. Their natural enemy is the US. Are we going to war everytime a state we don't like gets close to obtaining a nuke?

Surely the better answer is that Israel has to negotiate with its neighbours rather than going to war against them. Trump wants us as his b1tch country that he can bully into his own wars.

What I see with Israel, is them using another much more powerful military to do its dirty work for it.....by paying politicians off essentially.....and maybe blackmail. As I say, Israel should find a way of agreement.....but instead it chooses to ride or die....but it ends up with the US blaming us for not supporting their interests.

Your son might be drafted yeah, but would you support that to engage in a war that really doesn't involve our interests.

I mean it does now......but this situation was forced onto us with a war of choice.

Trump is goading NATO because he wants us to pull our weight. Other than for use of bases he doesn't really need Europe for an operation like this. In our case, it's also some tit for tat. Remember that Labour sent people over to the US to campaign against Trump. Kahn has been very vocal in his condemnation of Trump. It's politics.

I don't really see how Iran getting nukes doesn't affect everyone. A possible nuclear exchange in the Middle East changes everything. Since WW2, nukes have not been a serious option. If even one was to be launched in anger, the consequences could be disastrous. The only regime that is likely to launch one is a death cult run by religious fanatics who want to exterminate a neighbour.

Are you really so sure that a nuclear Iran is something you want to risk?

They have been dealt a huge blow, it could get worse for them and Britain has had to do next to nothing.
I'm not sure why you see assisting Israel as unusual. It's one ally helping another. It's also about removing enemies of the West. They don't speak the language of peace. They are happy to sacrifice their sons. They would all die for Allah. They are a menace.

I only see neutralising them as a positive.

 

[Spindle]

The latest developments overnight are depressing. It seems that this war will end when Netanyahu says so, not when the US thinks it should. Trump needs to stand up to him and tell him to fall into line and give the peace talks a chance..

The assumption that it's the Jews at fault

 

[eaglesdare]

I heard he is off to Germany next week to work on the WW2 peace treaty....

Obviously dan the man will be along any minute to fact check this 😂

 

[kevlee]

The assumption that it's the Jews at fault

So you disagree that there should be a complete ceasefire and Israel is entitled to go it alone? Ok - That’s an opinion.
Who mentioned ‘Jews’?

 

[Ouzo Dan]

Were not reopening the strait with military strength.
The strait is 200km long flanked entirely by mountains, the strait itself has underground submarine bases stocked with midget & micro submarines, behind those mountains is layered ballistic missile & drone positions all it takes is one Iranian with an anti ship missile hiding in the mountains or a forward observer to call in a strike to completely stop the strait no insurance company in the world will insure that.

If you want to change that militarily you will need to send 3,000,000 troops & commit years to it.

Iran has the US over a barrell of its own making.