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Assisted dying bill.

To me, there is a huge slug of ageism in this. Old people can’t be trusted to make their own decision as they are easily manipulated and will in any case be prone to fall on their sword to not be a burden to their children.

I believe most will have an excellent grasp of their own motives. There is nothing wrong either with deciding not to be a burden when you are terminally ill.

An example can be taken from Arctic senilicide.

In times of famine, it was naturally accepted that the least productive members of the family unit would be sacrificed. In some situations, an elderly individual who viewed himself as an unnecessary and unproductive burden might request a kinsman to assist him in terminating his life. The kinsman would be obliged, as a sign of respect, to abide by the wishes of the aged individual and would either assist him in committing suicide or kill him directly with his own hands. In both circumstances, the mercy killer is providing a culturally acceptable service and is not susceptible to public censure or ostracism.
 
Mapletree said:
To me, there is a huge slug of ageism in this. Old people can’t be trusted to make their own decision as they are easily manipulated and will in any case be prone to fall on their sword to not be a burden to their children.

I believe most will have an excellent grasp of their own motives. There is nothing wrong either with deciding not to be a burden when you are terminally ill.

An example can be taken from Arctic senilicide.

In times of famine, it was naturally accepted that the least productive members of the family unit would be sacrificed. In some situations, an elderly individual who viewed himself as an unnecessary and unproductive burden might request a kinsman to assist him in terminating his life. The kinsman would be obliged, as a sign of respect, to abide by the wishes of the aged individual and would either assist him in committing suicide or kill him directly with his own hands. In both circumstances, the mercy killer is providing a culturally acceptable service and is not susceptible to public censure or ostracism.
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Christ. Sounds like a Thatcherite wet dream.
 
I am currently trying to save £1000 in order to facilitate my own attempt at assisted dying.
I plan to book a one-way flight to Amsterdam, where I will be heavily sedated using street-purchased medication in preparation for a 3-hour session with 5 hookers dressed as nurses in some sado-masochistic caper.
The coroner will be unable to determine a specific cause of massive heart failure, but my body would have the most magnificent smile chiselled on it, and no doubt wood too.

That's the way to go.
 
Mapletree said:
To me, there is a huge slug of ageism in this.
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the Queen Mother, Prince Phillip & the Queen..........all living to circa 100 years. How horrified would you be if somebody suggested bumping them off cos they are old ? The abstract ethical debate changes somewhat when you put a face to the random statistics.

circa age 95, Prince Phillip was not only alive but also allowed to drive his jeep on the motorway like a maniac. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If the toffs can live long, then surely also your Granny ?
 
Mapletree said:
An example can be taken from Arctic senilicide.

In times of famine, it was naturally accepted that the least productive members of the family unit would be sacrificed. In some situations, an elderly individual who viewed himself as an unnecessary and unproductive burden might request a kinsman to assist him in terminating his life.
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i feel a warm buzz for the company of elderlies who were once productive. Its the young & useless that i would have a problem with. And God knows, we seem to be burdened with tons of them.
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
I am currently trying to save £1000 in order to facilitate my own attempt at assisted dying.
I plan to book a one-way flight to Amsterdam, where I will be heavily sedated using street-purchased medication in preparation for a 3-hour session with 5 hookers dressed as nurses in some sado-masochistic caper.
The coroner will be unable to determine a specific cause of massive heart failure, but my body would have the most magnificent smile chiselled on it, and no doubt wood too.

That's the way to go.
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Think a certain Ausssie spin bowler might have beaten you to that idea!
 
Teddy Eagle said:
I agree. Having seen people who died in great pain and distress anything would be better.
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I hear the argument but my response to this legitimate point is that we already have the means to both legally indirectly speed a demise and even more importantly take away the pain....in most cases the patient being completely out of it.

Perhaps the issue here is that some people aren't getting that treatment. Perhaps there are doctors concerned over being accused of killing people....I don't know.....But I have noticed from events in family history of situations where a surgeon or hospital will refuse an operation or more tactically strongly advise against, if they think there's a good chance a patient will die.....when the obvious reality is that the operation is their only hope anyway....leaving me with the suspicion that the hospital or surgeon doesn't want the death on their statistics.

Hopefully that observation of mine is incorrect and that assessments are made upon the difficulty level of a procedure rather than just a statistic.....otherwise that's the wrong incentive structure to save lives.....well, prolong them anyway.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I hear the argument but my response to this legitimate point is that we already have the means to both legally indirectly speed a demise and even more importantly take away the pain....in most cases the patient being completely out of it.

Perhaps the issue here is that some people aren't getting that treatment. Perhaps there are doctors concerned over being accused of killing people....I don't know.....But I have noticed from events in family history of situations where a surgeon or hospital will refuse an operation or more tactically strongly advise against, if they think there's a good chance a patient will die.....when the obvious reality is that the operation is their only hope anyway....leaving me with the suspicion that the hospital or surgeon doesn't want the death on their statistics.

Hopefully that observation of mine is incorrect and that assessments are made upon the difficulty level of a procedure rather than just a statistic.....otherwise that's the wrong incentive structure to save lives.....well, prolong them anyway.
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This is what I thought. In reality the several people who died of cancer in my family, died of morphine overdoses. I always presumed everyone was pretty much aware of it.
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
I am currently trying to save £1000 in order to facilitate my own attempt at assisted dying.
I plan to book a one-way flight to Amsterdam, where I will be heavily sedated using street-purchased medication in preparation for a 3-hour session with 5 hookers dressed as nurses in some sado-masochistic caper.
The coroner will be unable to determine a specific cause of massive heart failure, but my body would have the most magnificent smile chiselled on it, and no doubt wood too.

That's the way to go.
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Choose your window girls wisely. They range from completely rank to quite stunning. There’s one row that’ll make your jaw drop.
 
ASCPFC said:
In reality the several people who died of cancer in my family, died of morphine overdoses. I always presumed everyone was pretty much aware of it.
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yup, also in my family. And the medical staff made precious little effort to hide the fact. On getting a death-certificate there was one old-school Catholic type who asked if i wanted to query the cause of death- and to kick up a fuss. I declined.
When somebody is already advanced-terminal, on their deathbed, its cruel to force them to do an extra few weeks or months. You wouldn't do it to a dog.
 
Rudi Hedman said:
Luz Hurley is one of the hottest and sexiest women of all time imo. In Bewitched or whatever it’s called as the female devil she was A1.
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Very lovely indeed. And notable for her complaints that all you had to do was phone the papers with the time, date and location of the secluded beach on which you were going to get naked and they would send loads of photographers to invade your privacy. If you waited for them to arrive.
 
eaglesdare said:
It's what it will lead to is my main problem. Once it gets in they will add to it and add to it. So that a 17 year old with a mental illness can have assisted dying.

Just create a new virus that kills off the elderly earlier and transfer them all into care homes so they go quicker....oh wait that already happened.
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Well that would wipe out about 50% then.
 
I used to view this topic in a dispassionate way, but now I'm nearer 80 than 18 I'm not so sure.

There are many folk who suffer an awful, painful and undignified death and on balance I think patients in that situation should be able to choose when to end it. We need to see what rules and conditions are drawn up to protect people - that's going to need very careful and thoughtful discussion.
 
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