War in Ukraine

This meeting of European leaders at The White House is huuuuuuge. Would love to see a video of it inside one day. All leaders opposing Trump, whether honestly or secretly like our snake Keith Starlin.
 
Stirlingsays said:
It's embarrassing to be a client state, this is what WW2 did to us.
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I know you’ve read opinions on it but did we have much choice? Hitler did turn for France and England after trying to raise Poland to the ground and I think we can safely say Hitler wanted everywhere.

With no free England and Britain there’s nowhere for the USA to land to fight Germany. Plus there’d be many more German troops marching to Russia than fighting backwards and forwards across North Africa.
 
Stirlingsays said:
You don't think we are going to be left with the cost of rebuilding Ukraine and its military post end of the war?
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Yeah, I was probably pedantic. Europe will fund everything, with immigrant workers , and increasing budget defecits 😁👍
America is about to pull the financial plug, and down the financial abyss is where we're all headed.
 
Rudi Hedman said:
I know you’ve read opinions on it but did we have much choice? Hitler did turn for France and England after trying to raise Poland to the ground and I think we can safely say Hitler wanted everywhere.

With no free England and Britain there’s nowhere for the USA to land to fight Germany. Plus there’d be many more German troops marching to Russia than fighting backwards and forwards across North Africa.
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Yes, we did have a choice, and choices at various points, however this topic is always covered in hindsight.

I'm with Pat Bachanan's view of WW2 and as such it's an extremely detailed topic.

I look at the consequences.....Hell, Rudi one of them is the destruction of our country and it's hard to argue that the dots aren't connected back to that event.
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
Yeah, I was probably pedantic. Europe will fund everything, with immigrant workers , and increasing budget defecits 😁👍
America is about to pull the financial plug, and down the financial abyss is where we're all headed.
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All these feckers are fecking us.......we're like whores, except instead of getting paid, we are paying for it.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Yes, we did have a choice, and choices at various points, however this topic is always covered in hindsight.

I'm with Pat Bachanan's view of WW2 and as such it's an extremely detailed topic.

I look at the consequences.....Hell, Rudi one of them is the destruction of our country and it's hard to argue that the dots aren't connected back to that event.
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I agree that WWII kickstarted the slow decline of Britain. The start of immigration that ended up being encouraged and accelerated by Tony Blair. It also made Britain entitled while Germany knuckled down.

But I believe that if we didn’t get involved then Europe would have been completely occupied by Germany as well North Africa. No help or rescue from the USA because there was nowhere to land and camp. No British Empire either. Germany and Japan would have taken it all off us. We would have been under their control while they kept getting stronger.

Sure Europe would stay European and never eventually Muslim, but with the loss of our freedom. Plus Euro music is feckin abysmal. If there’s one thing we’ve been successful worldwide with, it’s music. We are THE best.
 
Rudi Hedman said:
I agree that WWII kickstarted the slow decline of Britain. The start of immigration that ended up being encouraged and accelerated by Tony Blair. It also made Britain entitled while Germany knuckled down.

But I believe that if we didn’t get involved then Europe would have been completely occupied by Germany as well North Africa. No help or rescue from the USA because there was nowhere to land and camp. No British Empire either. Germany and Japan would have taken it all off us. We would have been under their control while they kept getting stronger.

Sure Europe would stay European and never eventually Muslim, but with the loss of our freedom. Plus Euro music is feckin abysmal. If there’s one thing we’ve been successful worldwide with, it’s music. We are THE best.
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I believed that as well.

I also think that it's a reasonable argument and that you might be right.

My position is half based upon the war's consequences, with client status being one of them along with our replacement and how it relates back....and what the possible futures might have been.

While I accept that maybe I'm wrong let's consider some of the points that form why I now have major doubts over what happened.

It's certainly no endorsement of Hitler nor of pacifism and it's more related to should we have taken offered off ramps and was Stalin better than Hitler given the circumstances.

From what I've looked into in later life I've realise that what I was raised with was a 'take'..... it's one version of the truth.....Maybe it's the right one but other versions exist...and the access to alternative viewpoints wasn't easy to access.....alternative viewpoints that were being discussed even within Churchill's cabinet.

It's an extremely detailed topic but I'll very very briefly touch on several 'answers' to your points. One was that Britain was offered an alliance against communism (doesn't sound like an intention to invade). Countries that stayed neutral like Switzerland and Sweden were not invaded....though mainly this was because they weren't required for Germany's war aims.

Staying out of the war was a very real option for us......Like most wars it only brought ruin....and personally I think that's foolish unless the war is existential and for Britain it was a war of choice....For France as well as it should be remembered that France also declared war on Germany over Poland (though it was understandable)....Not the other way round......That said I also believed that Germany's motivation was to be the dominant force in Europe....(EU anyone?)

This is Grok's take on Britain as a target for Hitler before the declaration of war:

'Britain as a Target: Hitler’s attitude toward Britain was more complex than it was towards France. He initially hoped to avoid war with Britain, believing they could be persuaded to accept German dominance on the continent (as seen in his offers of peace during the Munich Crisis). However, contingency plans for invading Britain existed, and the Kriegsmarine’s expansion (e.g., Plan Z for naval buildup) was aimed at challenging British naval power in the long term. The invasion of Poland was undertaken with the understanding that it might provoke Britain, but Hitler gambled they would not act decisively.'

We attacked Germany first with bombing runs, they weren't looking for war with us. The decision to go to war with Germany over Poland (the route they had to secure to get at Russia) wasn't a defence of democracy as Poland was itself a dictatorship.

As for this freedom loss you talk about. Well, if Hitler had defeated us and occupied (which only didn't happen due to his timeline plans to attack Russia(his real motive all along)) then he'd have taken out the elites and Jews that's for sure...However, Hitler wasn't going to destroy Anglo Saxons (both are Germanic tribes), we would have survived and the country would have stayed Britain.

This is no defence of Hitler, his real plans were the elimination of Jews in Europe and to be the dominant power in Europe (which he wanted to unite) and the attack and defeat of Soviet Russia.

Regardless, now the next generation have a real existential mess on their hands and it may be lost already.
 
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end and we will have peace again.

Trump the only one in the room who wants peace. Let's hope the the EU leaders don't put up any more roadblocks to peace.

They all look like they have been told to leave the classroom by the headmaster Trump.
 

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Rudi Hedman said:
I know you’ve read opinions on it but did we have much choice? Hitler did turn for France and England after trying to raise Poland to the ground and I think we can safely say Hitler wanted everywhere.

With no free England and Britain there’s nowhere for the USA to land to fight Germany. Plus there’d be many more German troops marching to Russia than fighting backwards and forwards across North Africa.
Click to expand...
Hitler didn't want Britain. He saw us as the same people.
 
eaglesdare said:
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end and we will have peace again.

Trump the only one in the room who wants peace. Let's hope the the EU leaders don't put up any more roadblocks to peace.

They all look like they have been told to leave the classroom by the headmaster Trump.
Click to expand...
Jeez how embarrassing. Is that a real photo? Not AI?
 
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