Israel v Hamas

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It’s nothing to do with my happiness.

If there are civilians deaths of any kind, then yes of course I would have the same compassion for the victims.

These aren’t difficult concepts.

What gets me is that you know exactly why all this is happening, but you continue to go all Bob Geldof about it.

Instead of bleating, why don't you propose your plan to end the fighting.

And you can't just say that Israel should just defend itself with minimum force.

What would you do if France fired missiles into England on a regular basis? Would you just send them an angry text?

Stop playing Mother Teresa and give us something workable.

 

[Rudi Hedman]

What gets me is that you know exactly why all this is happening, but you continue to go all Bob Geldof about it.

Instead of bleating, why don't you propose your plan to end the fighting.

And you can't just say that Israel should just defend itself with minimum force.

What would you do if France fired missiles into England on a regular basis? Would you just send them an angry text?

Stop playing Mother Teresa and give us something workable.

Pack all the French off to Africa where half of them are now from and enjoy the large country without them there.

 

[Spindle]

You only need to see the latest YouGov figures to see how out of lockstep a lot of the posters on here are with general opinion in the country.

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/CAABU_Results_250714_w.pdf

Must be a big ol’ country of “Jew haters” you lot live in.

Cognative bias. Having looked at it then it shows your own bias in your perception of what this data indicates.

It says
- That most people want a ceasefire, ie an end to killing.
- That a minority of people who were likely in approval of the IDF actions now have a worse view of Israel (Con and Ref voters under 20%) but those who were left wing are three times as likely to have a worse view.
- That some people but not even a majority think that Israel should be sanctioned, it's very much split.

This absolutely fits in with this thread, doesn't it.

AND this won't be the whole survey, this will be a sampled part of it, sampled by one of your biased group hoping to capture the worse case scenario and present it for dissemination by similar minded useful idiots.

If I were to pick out any particularly interesting piece of data it would be the age split. You would think from what we see that the clock is ticking on the Jew because of the youthful uprising, yet the data shows a pretty even split in that view, and thus demostrates just how loud mouthed and unrepresentative the young Corbynista left is.

 

[DanH]

Cognative bias. Having looked at it then it shows your own bias in your perception of what this data indicates.

It says
- That most people want a ceasefire, ie an end to killing.
- That a minority of people who were likely in approval of the IDF actions now have a worse view of Israel (Con and Ref voters under 20%) but those who were left wing are three times as likely to have a worse view.
- That some people but not even a majority think that Israel should be sanctioned, it's very much split.

This absolutely fits in with this thread, doesn't it.

AND this won't be the whole survey, this will be a sampled part of it, sampled by one of your biased group hoping to capture the worse case scenario and present it for dissemination by similar minded useful idiots.

If I were to pick out any particularly interesting piece of data it would be the age split. You would think from what we see that the clock is ticking on the Jew because of the youthful uprising, yet the data shows a pretty even split in that view, and thus demostrates just how loud mouthed and unrepresentative the young Corbynista left is.

It’s quite clear what the data sample says. Only 22% of Brits support what is going on now. And only 9% strongly support.

We all have the same information available to us. Maybe ask yourself why the proportion of people that hold your position is so low.

 

[Spindle]

It’s quite clear what the data sample says. Only 22% of Brits support what is going on now. And only 9% strongly support.

We all have the same information available to us. Maybe ask yourself why the proportion of people that hold your position is so low.

And there is no minority of opposition either. Congratulations on your genocide message getting through though. All that handwringing finally paid off.

I'd like to see more on the survey, such as

"If the WB and Gaza were offered as a state, would the Palestinians who cry for it, accept it?"
"Is the best solution for Hamas to surrender and disarm, and the hostages released?"

 

[cryrst]

It’s quite clear what the data sample says. Only 22% of Brits support what is going on now. And only 9% strongly support.

We all have the same information available to us. Maybe ask yourself why the proportion of people that hold your position is so low.

What’s the difference in the samples with weighted or not weighted.

 

[Stirlingsays]

What's your evidence of an ethnic cleansing?

The Israeli cabinet's desire to remove Palestinians from Gaza.

Aside from making Gaza functionary hard to live in, there's plenty of reported commentary from their cabinet.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

What gets me is that you know exactly why all this is happening, but you continue to go all Bob Geldof about it.

Instead of bleating, why don't you propose your plan to end the fighting.

And you can't just say that Israel should just defend itself with minimum force.

What would you do if France fired missiles into England on a regular basis? Would you just send them an angry text?

Stop playing Mother Teresa and give us something workable.

Ending the fighting is several steps away. It isn’t the priority or what is causing the international condemnation of Israel.

Stopping the killing of the innocents and using starvation as a tool of war are the priorities.

Did you hear the first hand testimony of the ex special forces soldier who has been employed as a guard by one of the aid agencies. He said he had never witnessed before the indiscriminate killing of civilians trying to access aid as that he saw from the IDF.

That has to stop. It’s indefensible. Everything else can follow.

 

[Penge Eagle]

The Israeli cabinet's desire to remove Palestinians from Gaza.

Aside from making Gaza functionary hard to live in, there's plenty of reported commentary from their cabinet.

It's quite a stretch to link a wartime strategy to a deliberate plan to remove an entire population.

Cherry-picking some inflammatory comments made by individual ministers does not equate to government policy.

 

[Stirlingsays]

It's quite a stretch to link a wartime strategy to a deliberate plan to remove an entire population.

Cherry-picking some inflammatory comments made by individual ministers does not equate to government policy.

If they are cherry picked or not representative of policy wouldn't these comments need to have been contradicted or denied by said government?

What would the Israeli government realistically be doing for you to agree that it wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza?

 

[Penge Eagle]

If they are cherry picked or not representative of policy wouldn't these comment need to have been contradicted or denied by said government?

What would the Israeli government realistically be doing for you to agree that it wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza?

Governments don't need to formally deny every comment made by individual ministers or officials. We see this in the UK also. There needs to be an official government statement, policy or action that states your assertion.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Governments don't need to formally deny every comment made by individual ministers or officials. We see this in the UK also. There needs to be an official government statement, policy or action that states your assertion.

So for you to agree that someone's appraisal of Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing to be realistic, the Israeli government itself has to announce it as an official policy?

Ok, but I respectively think otherwise.

 

[Spindle]

If they are cherry picked or not representative of policy wouldn't these comment need to have been contradicted or denied by said government?

What would the Israeli government realistically be doing for you to agree that it wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza?

Let's be honest. Why would it be unrealistic for them to want to? They are faced with a population of 2 million souls terminally trained and indoctrinated from the moment of speech to kill them at every opportunity. I can't stand this holier than thou bullshit, it's a situation we just can't comprehend.

Sir Keir can agree with the 200+ MPs and give them what they want but will it be agreeable by the Gazans? No, imvho, sadly.

The only way is for the Arab world to deal with it, but they won't, they probably are secretly happy that the Israeli Arabs are like they are.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Let's be honest. Why would it be unrealistic for them to want to? They are faced with a population of 2 million souls terminally trained and indoctrinated from the moment of speech to kill them at every opportunity. I can't stand this holier than thou bullshit, it's a situation we just can't comprehend.

Sir Keir can agree with the 200+ MPs and give them what they want but will it be agreeable by the Gazans? No, imvho, sadly.

The only way is for the Arab world to deal with it, but they won't, they probably are secretly happy that the Israeli Arabs are like they are.

Yep, especially the Saudis and Qataris, I find it hard to believe, despite their lukewarm comments, that they aren't agreeing with what Israel/US are doing as it leaves them as the unchallenged hegemony in the Arab world.....They probably don't like what is happening in Gaza but as a package that saw the power of Iran and Hezbollah taken down I think they have accepted it.

Besides all these Arab countries refuse to save the Palestinians by taking them in.....though economic reasons and past experiences (Jordan) do explain that somewhat....but besides if they really cared as much as the Owen Jones' of the world they wouldn't hesitate.....and for someone like me, Arabs are an Arabs problem....No Arab country gives a feck what's happening in Ukraine/Russia do they and that's because it's a European problem.

If I were Israel I'd be trying to move the Gazans into Syria....transporting them on ships.

But I think they are waiting for the UN to move them, but that requires Hamas either being overthrown or giving up leadership and laying down arms.

This all has a way to go yet.

 

[Penge Eagle]

So for you to agree that someone's appraisal of Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing to be realistic, the Israeli government itself has to announce it as an official policy?

Ok, but I respectively think otherwise.

Well it has happened before in history.

It's unlikely anyway as I can't see the international community allowing it.

Your assertion might be correct - but just like calls of genocide - nobody can make judgements until the war is over and there has been due process.

So much for Arab solidarity - no country wants Gazans because they know they will cause trouble.

 

[DanH]

Well it has happened before in history.

It's unlikely anyway as I can't see the international community allowing it.

Your assertion might be correct - but just like calls of genocide - nobody can make judgements until the war is over and there has been due process.

So much for Arab solidarity - no country wants Gazans because they know they will cause trouble.

Does it happening before in history make it OK in your eyes? Genuine question. Aren’t we meant to evolve as a human race.

There are lots of things that have happened in the past that have not been repeated for very good reasons because we’re meant to learn from the mistakes.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Well it has happened before in history.

It's unlikely anyway as I can't see the international community allowing it.

Your assertion might be correct - but just like calls of genocide - nobody can make judgements until the war is over and there has been due process.

So much for Arab solidarity - no country wants Gazans because they know they will cause trouble.

People should look into what happened in Jordan when they took in tens of thousands of Palestinians.

There's that and the economic costs.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Does it happening before in history make it OK in your eyes? Genuine question. Aren’t we meant to evolve as a human race.

There are lots of things that have happened in the past that have not been repeated for very good reasons because we’re meant to learn from the mistakes.

You should try watching Love Island.

It's more like de-evolve.

 

[DanH]

You should try watching Love Island.

It's more like de-evolve.

I literally cannot argue with anything about this point.

 

[cryrst]

Does it happening before in history make it OK in your eyes? Genuine question. Aren’t we meant to evolve as a human race.

There are lots of things that have happened in the past that have not been repeated for very good reasons because we’re meant to learn from the mistakes.

Christianity generally accepts gay people and doesn’t throw them off buildings or want to kill people because they are not Christians.
There is another religion that does think and do the above ! Evolution ppfffttt !