New doctor's strike

[HKOwen]

So let's see a show of hands from those who were full of it criticising the last Government for not paying the BMA blackmail, look pretty stupid now don't you

 

[cryrst]

Said this as well. The money was there but changes were needed about the way the service was operated in exchange for it.
Same as train drivers who no doubt will strike again for more dough without change.

 

[georgenorman]

Is there something in the Truro water?

Truro surgeon accused of fraud over his leg amputations

Neil Hopper, 49, is also accused of encouraging the commission of grievous bodily harm.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Teddy Eagle]

Is there something in the Truro water?

Truro surgeon accused of fraud over his leg amputations

Neil Hopper, 49, is also accused of encouraging the commission of grievous bodily harm.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dr. Hopper? April Fools Day is a bit late.

 

[Spiderman]

Is there something in the Truro water?

Truro surgeon accused of fraud over his leg amputations

Neil Hopper, 49, is also accused of encouraging the commission of grievous bodily harm.

www.bbc.co.uk

Could they not see he was only pulling their leg

 

[steeleye20]

There is unlikely to be any support for this. it is not long since they had an award.

Junior doctors may be overloaded with debt, the government should assist imo.

For many years the junior doctors were the unsung heroes of the NHS working like slaves tbh, 80 hours a week would be a normal work-load, it probably still is.

Compare to the salary packages in their millions of CEOs in often disastrous water companies and infra-structure failures like HS2, the disappeared billions to foreign shareholders etc.

And in an emergency they would actually be at the sharp end to help you.

Unlike anyone else I can readily think of.

Why for example. do we pay people hundreds of thousands to shuffle a playlist or resd the news from a script.

It's a question of what society do you want.

😎

 

[Rudi Hedman]

There is unlikely to be any support for this. it is not long since they had an award.

Junior doctors may be overloaded with debt, the government should assist imo.

For many years the junior doctors were the unsung heroes of the NHS working like slaves tbh, 80 hours a week would be a normal work-load, it probably still is.

Compare to the salary packages in their millions of CEOs in often disastrous water companies and infra-structure failures like HS2, the disappeared billions to foreign shareholders etc.

And in an emergency they would actually be at the sharp end to help you.

Unlike anyone else I can readily think of.

Why for example. do we pay people hundreds of thousands to shuffle a playlist or resd the news from a script.

It's a question of what society do you want.

😎

80 hour week. Please. Behave.

 

[Eagleman13]

80 hour week. Please. Behave.

Tbf to Steely, that's quite common. Got a good mate who is a Jnr Doctor & 3x he had done a 95hr week, sleeping where & when he could, not even going back to his shared digs.

 

[Badger11]

There is unlikely to be any support for this. it is not long since they had an award.

Junior doctors may be overloaded with debt, the government should assist imo.

For many years the junior doctors were the unsung heroes of the NHS working like slaves tbh, 80 hours a week would be a normal work-load, it probably still is.

Compare to the salary packages in their millions of CEOs in often disastrous water companies and infra-structure failures like HS2, the disappeared billions to foreign shareholders etc.

And in an emergency they would actually be at the sharp end to help you.

Unlike anyone else I can readily think of.

Why for example. do we pay people hundreds of thousands to shuffle a playlist or resd the news from a script.

It's a question of what society do you want.

😎

Too many hours worked is a valid criticism. Junior doctors become consultants and get paid very well indeed, this is no different to any other profession. You start at the bottom and work your way up.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Junior doctors are already leaving the NHS in their tens of thousands.

If we don't want immigration and we don't want to improve pay...

How do you square that circle?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Too many hours worked is a valid criticism. Junior doctors become consultants and get paid very well indeed, this is no different to any other profession. You start at the bottom and work your way up.

But most professions don't require 5-6 years of training and six figures of student loan debt just to get started.

 

[beak]

But most professions don't require 5-6 years of training and six figures of student loan debt just to get started.

There pay has been badly eroded ,i might need a doctor so i'm not overly happy about strike action. I would be far happier if the taxman took a few years off. My boy earns far more doing diddly squat for a bank.

 

[georgenorman]

Junior doctors are already leaving the NHS in their tens of thousands.

If we don't want immigration and we don't want to improve pay...

How do you square that circle?

Over what period are you claiming that 'tens of thousand' of Junior Doctors have left the NHS?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Over what period are you claiming that 'tens of thousand' of Junior Doctors have left the NHS?

I don't think it really matters to my point, but some citations would be:

In England between September 2022 and September 2023, approximately 15,000–23,000 doctors of all grades left the NHS prematurely

Leaver rates among junior doctors are high: up to ~44–50% in F2, and over 22% even among specialty registrars (2023–24).

Among medical students in 2023, about 32.5% planned to leave the NHS within two years—either practising abroad or quitting medicine entirely

A BMA poll found that 40% of junior doctors surveyed plan to leave the NHS once an alternative job is available.

 

[georgenorman]

I don't think it really matters to my point, but some citations would be:

In England between September 2022 and September 2023, approximately 15,000–23,000 doctors of all grades left the NHS prematurely

Leaver rates among junior doctors are high: up to ~44–50% in F2, and over 22% even among specialty registrars (2023–24).

Among medical students in 2023, about 32.5% planned to leave the NHS within two years—either practising abroad or quitting medicine entirely

A BMA poll found that 40% of junior doctors surveyed plan to leave the NHS once an alternative job is available.

I see that you got your figures from BMA - hardly an unbiased source as they are the ones striking.
Approximately 15,000-23,000 - that's very approximate indeed!
Looking at their figures that are entitled 'A rising number of doctors are leaving NHS organisations', they put in the small print 'These figures represent staff both leaving and those moving within the NHS.'!
How many left due to retirement or illness or dismissal or a hundred and one other reasosn?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I see that you got your figures from BMA - hardly an unbiased source as they are the ones striking.
Approximately 15,000-23,000 - that's very approximate indeed!
Looking at their figures that are entitled 'A rising number of doctors are leaving NHS organisations', they put in the small print 'These figures represent staff both leaving and those moving within the NHS.'!
How many left due to retirement or illness or dismissal or a hundred and one other reasosn?

Unless you're contesting that doctors are leaving the NHS in significant volume, I think you're just going around the point.

 

[georgenorman]

Unless you're contesting that doctors are leaving the NHS in significant volume, I think you're just going around the point.

Whatever the correct figures are, pay rates are not necessarily the cause of people leaving their employment. From the King's Fund: "Resolving NHS workforce shortages is about both recruitment of new staff and retention of existing staff. More than half of NHS leavers are voluntary resignations; reasons given include relocation or dependants. However, the top two reasons for leaving are to improve work–life balance or because of health issues. The number of staff leaving for these reasons has more than tripled since 2013/14."

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Whatever the correct figures are, pay rates are not necessarily the cause of people leaving their employment. From the King's Fund: "Resolving NHS workforce shortages is about both recruitment of new staff and retention of existing staff. More than half of NHS leavers are voluntary resignations; reasons given include relocation or dependants. However, the top two reasons for leaving are to improve work–life balance or because of health issues. The number of staff leaving for these reasons has more than tripled since 2013/14."

Ok, so we agree doctors are leaving at a high rate.

If we don't want immigration and we don't want to improve pay - how do you square that circle?

 

[georgenorman]

Ok, so we agree doctors are leaving at a high rate.

If we don't want immigration and we don't want to improve pay - how do you square that circle?

The King's Fund research finds that pay is not in the top two (at least) reasons for leaving. Do you think that employers should pay whatever their employees demand?

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Do you think that employers should pay whatever their employees demand?

Sure, I'll answer more questions while you continue not to 😴

No, I don't think employers should pay whatever their employees demand. That would be silly.

Do I think employers who are evidently struggling with recruitment and retention, whilst their employees protest over pay, should consider it? Obviously.