Internationals

[CPFCSaturn]

Think The commentator mentioned also, that the starting line up last night was the first without ANY players from any of ManU, ManC and Liverpool (and Arsenal if you omit LewisSkelly) for something like 35 years. Kinda goes against the Big club bias theory.

It had some truth once upon a time, but not for many years now - and we of all clubs should know it...

Eze has been poor most of the season and still got in, Wharton got a tournament call-up after 16 Prem games, Guehi has 23 caps before his 25th birthday.

 

[silvertop]

Think The commentator mentioned also, that the starting line up last night was the first without ANY players from any of ManU, ManC and Liverpool (and Arsenal if you omit LewisSkelly) for something like 35 years. Kinda goes against the Big club bias theory.

*edit* oh yeah and Rice. forgot about him. maybe we can't omit arsenal!

Also, name the ones who are English, fit and available.

 

[NMPalace]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1904285946713079947

Never mind whether any other Palace players have scored for England, just enjoy Eze's. As Badger wrote, he definitely wanted to impress in his 30 minutes on the pitch.

1st goal in 49 years from a Palace player and that's your comment. What would you say if Palace won some meaningful silverware, something we have never done?

 

[Eaglecoops]

I strongly disagree with those who say this is what we should expect from England against lowly ranked teams.

Latvia have only just started their season, have very little match fitness, a small squad and had lots of travelling to do whilst playing their two games in 4 days.

Most England players play in the quickest and hardest pressing league in the world and are at a point in the season where they will all be super fit. They should be absolutely running these teams off the pitch, pressing high and forcing mistakes which they didn’t do, they just 3/4 pressed and even then not everyone joined in.

It almost looks like they think it’s sufficient to try and pass their way through an 11 man defence without exerting too much effort. We got away with it due to a fantastic free kick which then opened the game slightly and more gaps appeared.

If you want top ranked teams to start worrying about you then you need to be ruthlessly efficient in every match you play and put crap teams to the sword.

 

[MrRobbo]

I strongly disagree with those who say this is what we should expect from England against lowly ranked teams.

Latvia have only just started their season, have very little match fitness, a small squad and had lots of travelling to do whilst playing their two games in 4 days.

Most England players play in the quickest and hardest pressing league in the world and are at a point in the season where they will all be super fit. They should be absolutely running these teams off the pitch, pressing high and forcing mistakes which they didn’t do, they just 3/4 pressed and even then not everyone joined in.

It almost looks like they think it’s sufficient to try and pass their way through an 11 man defence without exerting too much effort. We got away with it due to a fantastic free kick which then opened the game slightly and more gaps appeared.

If you want top ranked teams to start worrying about you then you need to be ruthlessly efficient in every match you play and put crap teams to the sword.

Couldn't agree more.

ITs not good enough to edge past these teams. Need to be giving some of these a real mauling.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I strongly disagree with those who say this is what we should expect from England against lowly ranked teams.

Latvia have only just started their season, have very little match fitness, a small squad and had lots of travelling to do whilst playing their two games in 4 days.

Most England players play in the quickest and hardest pressing league in the world and are at a point in the season where they will all be super fit. They should be absolutely running these teams off the pitch, pressing high and forcing mistakes which they didn’t do, they just 3/4 pressed and even then not everyone joined in.

It almost looks like they think it’s sufficient to try and pass their way through an 11 man defence without exerting too much effort. We got away with it due to a fantastic free kick which then opened the game slightly and more gaps appeared.

If you want top ranked teams to start worrying about you then you need to be ruthlessly efficient in every match you play and put crap teams to the sword.

It feels like you're setting a standard which is impossible to hit.

We have the best record of any major European team in qualifying over the past 10 years. Literally nobody manages to go and hammer everyone, and every single major nation has these sluggish sort of performances against ultra-defensive teams.

We didn't get away with anything yesterday - we comfortably won a game without getting out of 2nd gear. The gaps opened in the 2nd half as a result of the lack of match fitness of the Latvians, and our relentless use of the ball.

I don't think any top ranked teams give a single s*** how we do against Latvia.

 

[silvertop]

It feels like you're setting a standard which is impossible to hit.

We have the best record of any major European team in qualifying over the past 10 years. Literally nobody manages to go and hammer everyone, and every single major nation has these sluggish sort of performances against ultra-defensive teams.

We didn't get away with anything yesterday - we comfortably won a game without getting out of 2nd gear. The gaps opened in the 2nd half as a result of the lack of match fitness of the Latvians, and our relentless use of the ball.

I don't think any top ranked teams give a single s*** how we do against Latvia.

The problem is that, unless we set up friendlies against them, you only get better against the top teams if you play top teams. Otherwise, you develop to the level of play in 2nd gear and suffer the shock when you suddenly have to hit 5th.

I suppose the ready answer is that the players are constantly at 5th at club level. Just not with each other.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

The problem is that, unless we set up friendlies against them, you only get better against the top teams if you play top teams. Otherwise, you develop to the level of play in 2nd gear and suffer the shock when you suddenly have to hit 5th.

I suppose the ready answer is that the players are constantly at 5th at club level. Just not with each other.

Yeah that's a valid concern - we typically do see friendlies against higher profile opposition as we approach tournaments, but even then it is hardly reflecting the intensity of a tournament game.

Ultimately what you describe is an inherent 'problem' with international football, but I don't think our performances in qualifiers has any bearing on it at all - we can't make Latvia give us anything resembling a competitive game, no matter how much intensity we try to breath into things or how many goals we try to score.

 

[CrazyBadger]

I strongly disagree with those who say this is what we should expect from England against lowly ranked teams.

Latvia have only just started their season, have very little match fitness, a small squad and had lots of travelling to do whilst playing their two games in 4 days.

Most England players play in the quickest and hardest pressing league in the world and are at a point in the season where they will all be super fit. They should be absolutely running these teams off the pitch, pressing high and forcing mistakes which they didn’t do, they just 3/4 pressed and even then not everyone joined in.

It almost looks like they think it’s sufficient to try and pass their way through an 11 man defence without exerting too much effort. We got away with it due to a fantastic free kick which then opened the game slightly and more gaps appeared.

If you want top ranked teams to start worrying about you then you need to be ruthlessly efficient in every match you play and put crap teams to the sword.

so what you're saying is They're Fresh 😛😆

I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to play against an organised, 'low block' side, regardless of perceived quality (as a side note, when did 'low block' enter the vernacular, it seems to have just appeared and everyone is now using it). Very few teams(if any) manage to consistently 'put these teams to the sword'. Latvia's whole aim was to avoid a battering. They're not part-timers, they're full time club players, who train everyday and who have qualified to get to the qualifiers!

We won 3-0. What exactly were you expecting - 10-0, 15-0?

The problem is that these matches need to happen in the first place. The gulf in quality does no one any favours. They are inevitably dull because one team looks to sit in their own half and invite the other the break them down and maybe, just maybe nicking one at the other end to snatch a point or 3 when the reality is even the odd shock result is unlikely to end in the 'seeded' team not qualifying from the group. The lower team learn nothing, save a bit of defending practice. The better team learn nothing too, and the Fans are offered up dreariness for their hard earned buck. It's also terrible preparation for a major tournament.

Once upon a time there were International Friendlies which more or less guarenteed playing decent opposition. Now we have the Nations League, which I do think has improved things a little but what's it's done is stopped teams experimenting. To play the better teams you have to stay in the top league, you don't feel as though you can experiment as much in a competitive environment; Experimentation is vital in the international game. We're not in the top league, so where's our decent games coming from?

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

1st goal in 49 years from a Palace player and that's your comment. What would you say if Palace won some meaningful silverware, something we have never done?

Jolly good show!

 

[Eaglecoops]

so what you're saying is They're Fresh 😛😆

I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to play against an organised, 'low block' side, regardless of perceived quality (as a side note, when did 'low block' enter the vernacular, it seems to have just appeared and everyone is now using it). Very few teams(if any) manage to consistently 'put these teams to the sword'. Latvia's whole aim was to avoid a battering. They're not part-timers, they're full time club players, who train everyday and who have qualified to get to the qualifiers!

We won 3-0. What exactly were you expecting - 10-0, 15-0?

The problem is that these matches need to happen in the first place. The gulf in quality does no one any favours. They are inevitably dull because one team looks to sit in their own half and invite the other the break them down and maybe, just maybe nicking one at the other end to snatch a point or 3 when the reality is even the odd shock result is unlikely to end in the 'seeded' team not qualifying from the group. The lower team learn nothing, save a bit of defending practice. The better team learn nothing too, and the Fans are offered up dreariness for their hard earned buck. It's also terrible preparation for a major tournament.

Once upon a time there were International Friendlies which more or less guarenteed playing decent opposition. Now we have the Nations League, which I do think has improved things a little but what's it's done is stopped teams experimenting. To play the better teams you have to stay in the top league, you don't feel as though you can experiment as much in a competitive environment; Experimentation is vital in the international game. We're not in the top league, so where's our decent games coming from?

You couldn’t be much more condescending if you tried. I already explained why we should be putting them to the sword but instead of answering the points I made you just said that I don’t know how difficult it is. What a load of old tosh.

We’re not in the top league and playing top teams because of the simple reason we didn’t play well enough against the crap and mediocre teams previously, which for a team which has aspirations of winning major tournaments is appalling.

I totally disagree with what you, Saturn and others say about our lacklustre performances and I believe you create your own direction and form by playing to the strengths of our league which is high tempo, high pressing football, not walking it into the net, however none of us is the manager or have any connection to the team so our opinions are irrelevant and we will get what we get.

I know one thing for sure, Spain and the other top teams will not be running scared.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

You couldn’t be much more condescending if you tried. I already explained why we should be putting them to the sword but instead of answering the points I made you just said that I don’t know how difficult it is. What a load of old tosh.

We’re not in the top league and playing top teams because of the simple reason we didn’t play well enough against the crap and mediocre teams previously, which for a team which has aspirations of winning major tournaments is appalling.

I totally disagree with what you, Saturn and others say about our lacklustre performances and I believe you create your own direction and form by playing to the strengths of our league which is high tempo, high pressing football, not walking it into the net, however none of us is the manager or have any connection to the team so our opinions are irrelevant and we will get what we get.

I know one thing for sure, Spain and the other top teams will not be running scared.

In the last set of qualifiers, Spain only managed 3-1 wins over Cyprus and Georgia. A sticky 1-0 win over Norway, and managed to lose 2-0 to Scotland.

They then went on to win the tournament and were the best team by a distance.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

An interesting quote from a Phillip Lahm article in The Athletic around Tuchel's appointment and England's national team more generally:

"In Germany, we understand this phenomenon of a strong national league counteracting the success of a national team, albert in a different sport. Handball is extraordinarily popular here - the Handball-Bundesliga is arguably the strongest in Europe - and yet Germany have won only two world titles in the past 50 years, partly because the league is so attractive to international players.

One of the challenges for Tuchel will be the gap between the expectations of fans and the media, conditioned by the Premier League, and the relative global level of some of the players."

 

[CrazyBadger]

You couldn’t be much more condescending if you tried. I already explained why we should be putting them to the sword but instead of answering the points I made you just said that I don’t know how difficult it is. What a load of old tosh.

We’re not in the top league and playing top teams because of the simple reason we didn’t play well enough against the crap and mediocre teams previously, which for a team which has aspirations of winning major tournaments is appalling.

I totally disagree with what you, Saturn and others say about our lacklustre performances and I believe you create your own direction and form by playing to the strengths of our league which is high tempo, high pressing football, not walking it into the net, however none of us is the manager or have any connection to the team so our opinions are irrelevant and we will get what we get.

I know one thing for sure, Spain and the other top teams will not be running scared.

How can you be high pressing, if you've always got the ball? There's nothing to press, no mistakes to force. We had the ball for 76% of the time. in which time they were compact, forcing us to the wings so we could cross. Picking through any defence like that is tough. Should we be able to overcome it? of course we should, and we did.
Lacklustre is a hard word - I saw a team with more energy, more desire, and yes, higher tempo. 27 shots, 8 on target, 10 blocked. Compare that to England Malta in 2023 - similar possession, 10 shots, 4 on target, 1 blocked. the Stats are better accross the board.

It's boring because of the nature of the game, not through lack of effort on our part.
It wont be better until (and still might not be, btw) we play a better team who's expected to compete.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

How can you be high pressing, if you've always got the ball? There's nothing to press, no mistakes to force. We had the ball for 76% of the time. in which time they were compact, forcing us to the wings so we could cross. Picking through any defence like that is tough. Should we be able to overcome it? of course we should, and we did.
Lacklustre is a hard word - I saw a team with more energy, more desire, and yes, higher tempo. 27 shots, 8 on target, 10 blocked. Compare that to England Malta in 2023 - similar possession, 10 shots, 4 on target, 1 blocked. the Stats are better accross the board.

It's boring because of the nature of the game, not through lack of effort on our part.
It wont be better until (and still might not be, btw) we play a better team who's expected to compete.

Exactly, it’s just what’s been created with all the new countries that popped up in the 90’s and us always being a top seed. The format is not our fault, it’s done to make sure all the top nations qualify for the finals. We’d all soon be moaning if it wasn’t seeded, we got a tough group and didn’t even qualify.

Any manager from Tuchel, to Southgate, Hodgson or any one of us in charge would’ve won those first two games comfortably, you could get away with not even having a manager they’re so one sided. But that’s how it is and we won’t be able to judge Tuchel until we do play someone decent, which basically will be in the tournament itself now, then we’ll see what he’s made of with his selections and those in game substitutions and tactical tweaks that Southgate seemed to get wrong when the going got tough or even when we’ve been on top against the top sides

 

[pssguy]

I know one thing for sure, Spain and the other top teams will not be running scared.

Do any of the major nations take England seriously? We have only won one major tournament in the best part of a century and that was in our own backyard and with the help of a contentious decision

 

[pssguy]

I think the only other scorer whilst playing for palace was Peter Taylor back in 1976 when we were a 3rd division club.

ATAI,
"Johnny Byrne scored for England while playing for Crystal Palace. He made his debut for the England national team in 1961 and scored his first international goal in 1963. At the time, he was representing Crystal Palace, which was then a Third Division club"

 

[Palacesince64]

In the last set of qualifiers, Spain only managed 3-1 wins over Cyprus and Georgia. A sticky 1-0 win over Norway, and managed to lose 2-0 to Scotland.

They then went on to win the tournament and were the best team by a distance.

We like beating champions. It allowed us to believe we’re really the best team in Europe. We did something similar to a team that had just won the World Cup in 1966. Can’t quite recall who they were but we gave them a football lesson just after.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

ATAI,
"Johnny Byrne scored for England while playing for Crystal Palace. He made his debut for the England national team in 1961 and scored his first international goal in 1963. At the time, he was representing Crystal Palace, which was then a Third Division club"

It’s a shame Geoff Thomas didn’t score when he was clean through against the French keeper, he would’ve re-wrote a bit of palace history…….and saved himself the embarrassment of a shocker of a miss as well 🤣

 

[Eaglehamster]

Exactly, it’s just what’s been created with all the new countries that popped up in the 90’s and us always being a top seed. The format is not our fault, it’s done to make sure all the top nations qualify for the finals. We’d all soon be moaning if it wasn’t seeded, we got a tough group and didn’t even qualify.

Any manager from Tuchel, to Southgate, Hodgson or any one of us in charge would’ve won those first two games comfortably, you could get away with not even having a manager they’re so one sided. But that’s how it is and we won’t be able to judge Tuchel until we do play someone decent, which basically will be in the tournament itself now, then we’ll see what he’s made of with his selections and those in game substitutions and tactical tweaks that Southgate seemed to get wrong when the going got tough or even when we’ve been on top against the top sides

I tend to agree that just passing the ball around until an opening is found should not be your only tactic. Who other than Eze actually beat a defender during the game? Rashford did once IIRC. Grealish rarely attempts it and he’s not considered the player he was. It’s the fear of losing possession I suppose but football is far duller without it.