Interesting (?) Political stuff...

[Stirlingsays]

Well, I'm obviously more to the left than many on here but I wouldn't consider it wrong to criticise the left if I thought they are wrong on something.

Why would I?

So where's this post of you criticising the left then?.....because so far all I've seen is you moaning about the right being the right.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I wouldn't call pensioners a drain on society myself, they are our people.....Well, most of them.

An aging society is a success story.....What I'm far more criticial of is a generation of women who didn't do their biological jobs and have children and the culture that encouraged them not to........Governments who didn't help and enable birth rate replacement to happen.....total disaster.

The cultural shift from a duty to the next generation and instead towards the self wasn't just pulling the ladder up.....it was cutting it up and then burning it.

The current crop of pensioners can't at all claim to care about a duty to the next generation - they are probably the most self-interested voting block in the country, and have consistently voted for/against policies which knowingly make things harder for younger generations.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Given the interest rates over the last few years, most of that tax will come from, in some cases, the State pension (contributed) and any other pensions that the payee may have accrued/paid for. Pension income of £1047.50 will put you into the tax bracket!

So their income increased in line with interest rates... must be nice!

 

[Glazier#1]

So where's this post of you criticising the left then?.....because so far all I've seen is you moaning about the right being the right.

So, being critical of opinions on here is 'moaning' is it. There's a word for that: pejorative

 

[Teddy Eagle]

So their income increased in line with interest rates... must be nice!

Sure. It's a neverending spend up when the old age pension is about half the minimum wage.

 

[Stirlingsays]

The current crop of pensioners can't at all claim to care about a duty to the next generation - they are probably the most self-interested voting block in the country, and have consistently voted for/against policies which knowingly make things harder for younger generations.

I hear what you're saying, but like I say, they are us.....so I don't see the dynamic as a confrontational one.

People are people, I blame the liberalism that slowly took over from the socially conservative society post WW2....By the 70s most of the war generation had died or long since retired. Culture is downstream from law and personal expectations rose to become entitlements and duty because a boring and increasingly dirty word. Yes, the boomers started that but it was given and taught to them by their elites.

If you watch the old film 'Hobson's Choice', which reflects the culture from that time and compare it to today.....You can kind of see where the rot set in.

 

[Stirlingsays]

So, being critical of opinions on here is 'moaning' is it. There's a word for that: pejorative

You could....you know....answer the question....especially since you like asking so many yourself.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Sure. It's a neverending spend up when the old age pension is about half the minimum wage.

"Median wealth among Brits in their 60s was 55 per cent higher in real terms than those of the same age in 2006-08, whereas median wealth for those in their 30s was 34 per cent lower."

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I hear what you're saying, but like I say, they are us.....so I don't see the dynamic as a confrontational one.

People are people, I blame the liberalism that slowly took over from the socially conservative society post WW2....By the 70s most of the war generation had died or long since retired. Culture is downstream from law and personal expectations rose to become entitlements and duty because a boring and increasingly dirty word. Yes, the boomers started that but it was given and taught to them by their elites.

If you watch the old film 'Hobson's Choice', which reflects the culture from that time and compare it to today.....You can kind of see where the rot set in.

Whilst I recognise some truth in what you say, I'm not comfortable just absolving individuals of any and all responsibility.

I don't view the existing wealth distribution as some sort of cultural inevitability.

 

[Stirlingsays]

If we are going to look purely at the wealth aspect of those over 65 and compare it to earlier generations there is certainly a world of difference. I heard that one in four does very well, and while the 3 out of 4 probably aren't it's certainly a vast improvement on the past.

I asked Grok to be specific:

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) Wealth and Assets Survey, covering April 2018 to March 2020 (the latest comprehensive dataset available as of early 2025), shows that 27% of individuals aged 65 and over in Great Britain—approximately 3.1 million people—lived in households with total wealth exceeding £1 million. This wealth includes property (net of mortgages), private pensions, financial assets (e.g., savings and investments), and physical assets (e.g., household contents). This translates to roughly 1 in 4 pensioners living in "millionaire households," aligning with the claim.

I think we can see who they are coming for after they raid welfare.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

If we are going to look purely at the wealth aspect of those over 65 and compare it to earlier generations there is certainly a world of difference. I heard that one in four does very well, and while the 3 out of 4 probably aren't it's certainly a vast improvement on the past.

I asked Grok to be specific:

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) Wealth and Assets Survey, covering April 2018 to March 2020 (the latest comprehensive dataset available as of early 2025), shows that 27% of individuals aged 65 and over in Great Britain—approximately 3.1 million people—lived in households with total wealth exceeding £1 million. This wealth includes property (net of mortgages), private pensions, financial assets (e.g., savings and investments), and physical assets (e.g., household contents). This translates to roughly 1 in 4 pensioners living in "millionaire households," aligning with the claim.

I think we can see who they are coming for after they raid welfare.

But is that not exactly how a progressive tax system should work..?

 

[Glazier#1]

You could....you know....answer the question....especially since you like asking so many yourself.

I certainly believe that any surgical operation to alter gender should only be carried out after the age of 18. Or even 21 because the ramifications are so profound and it certainly isn't something to be taken lightly.
I would like the law to reflect this.

 

[Teddy Eagle]

"Median wealth among Brits in their 60s was 55 per cent higher in real terms than those of the same age in 2006-08, whereas median wealth for those in their 30s was 34 per cent lower."

For some. Yes, 45+ years of work, 25 of them paying off a mortgage and into a pension scheme whilst trying to save for the future has had it's benefits.
Still, think of all those inheritances coming down the line.

 

[steeleye20]

It's hi-di-hi from Rachel Reeves at Number 10 Macklins:-

All you bankers and landlords out there especially welcome (I just happen to be both myself).

😎

 

[CPFCSaturn]

For some. Yes, 45+ years of work, 25 of them paying off a mortgage and into a pension scheme whilst trying to save for the future has had it's benefits.
Still, think of all those inheritances coming down the line.

Well that's how an average works!

Do you think if someone who turns 21 today works for the next 45+ years they'd have the same possibilities to save and accrue wealth?

 

[Stirlingsays]

But is that not exactly how a progressive tax system should work..?

Well, as we know there's a massive difference between income and asset wealth.

I think there's an argument for going after the small percent who own multiple homes for example (though this crowd have the wealth enough to flee) so how practical it is...is something else entirely. What I wouldn't agree with is going after Mr and Mrs Smith who are retired on modest incomes but who live in a nice property that they worked for.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well, as we know there's a massive difference between income and asset wealth.

I think there's an argument for going after the small percent who own multiple homes for example (though this crowd have the wealth enough to flee) so how practical it is...is something else entirely. What I wouldn't agree with is going after Mr and Mrs Smith who are retired on modest incomes but who live in a nice property that they worked for.

There is, but it does not mean asset wealth should be ignored - the two are correlated.

Multiple home ownership should be taxed to the heavens.

To be clear, I'm not proposing some wild land grab from pensioners - I just think it's obvious that one of the wealthiest groups in society (on average) should shoulder a reasonable tax burden (as pensioners currently do!)

For some reason that logic, which is broadly accepted across the political spectrum in most other cases, becomes controversial when it comes to pensioners.

 

[steeleye20]

It's hi-di-hi from Rachel Reeves at Number 10 Macklins:-

All you bankers and landlords out there especially welcome (I just happen to be both myself).

😎

'Will pensioners report to the shower block immediately'.

Heil Starmer!

🙂

 

[Stirlingsays]

There is, but it does not mean asset wealth should be ignored - the two are correlated.

Multiple home ownership should be taxed to the heavens.

To be clear, I'm not proposing some wild land grab from pensioners - I just think it's obvious that one of the wealthiest groups in society (on average) should shoulder a reasonable tax burden (as pensioners currently do!)

For some reason that logic, which is broadly accepted across the political spectrum in most other cases, becomes controversial when it comes to pensioners.

Well, while I have criticism for the cultural shifts that have resulted in worst outcomes for incoming generations I also recognise that the main wealth transfer over the years is less to sensible pensioners who have been careful with their money but to the super-rich who make their wealth look like peanuts.....and are careful to keep that wealth in non reachable domains.

So government ends up squeezing those middle classes who can't bugger off, pensioners or not and the poor on welfare.

If you follow the real money it's not with Mr and Mrs Normy.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

Well, while I have criticism for the cultural shifts that have resulted in worst outcomes for incoming generations I also recognise that the main wealth transfer over the years is less to sensible pensioners who have been careful with their money but to the super-rich who make their wealth look like peanuts.....and are careful to keep that wealth in non reachable domains.

So government ends up squeezing those middle classes who can't bugger off, pensioners or not and the poor on welfare.

If you follow the real money it's not with Mr and Mrs Normy.

Very much agree with the thrust of your post, and again, I'm not suggesting any wild squeezing of Mr & Mrs Normy - I just struggle with any of these assertions that somehow pensioners are the hard done by ones.

Even with your post above, the use of language like "sensible pensioners who have been careful with their money" is what I struggle with - people today could be as sensible and careful as they like, they will never have the opportunity to accrue the wealth that current pensioners have.

There are still huge swathes of the population, many of whom are pensioners, who still think we live in a country where if you just work hard and put some money away each month, you can own a home and raise a family and live a comfortable life, because that's what they did.

The bar has completely moved, and rather than accept that, we societally tie ourselves in knots about spending habits and 'hard work', all to appease the egos of a generation who got to play an entirely different game.

Increasingly the key indicator to a young person's financial future is how much their dad is worth - not their education, not their job, not how hard they work and certainly not how many coffees they buy.

But it's also worth highlighting that the wealthy pensioner who owns 4 buy-to-lets is very much 'guilty' of a wealth transfer from ordinary working families, who in previous generations would have owned their home - I'm not necessarily blaming them for this, but it's relevant if we're talking about growing wealth inequality.