I mean he is creating something special in much the same way a natural disaster does …
Sage in or out
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Teddy Eagle
Member
- Country
Scotland
Use that spare £90m yoiu have lying around and make him an offer to go. I am sure you would make a better job of running a football club.
eritheagle
Member
- Location
- Erith
- Country
England
No point working with mateta as suspended for our 2 big games. And the same with sarr as he'll probably be "injured".
I do agree with your sentiment though and i was disappointed that there wasn't an announcement this morning (although i supported both the manager and team last night).
ASCPFC
Member
- Location
- Pro-Cathedral/caravan park
- Country
Ireland
Yum, yum.
Has it really ever worked in the league, would Muñoz, Guehi, Lacroix and Mitchell as a 4, with an extra man in midfield not have been better, its just a poor system.
TheBigToePunt
Member
- Country
-
England
I’ve changed from ‘on the fence’ to ‘out’. That is sad enough but, I have to say, if there was an option for ‘Out Right Now!’ I would select it, unfortunately.
For me, the work of a coach is most clearly seen in the defensive and middle thirds of the pitch. That is where, both in and out of possession, some sort of structure can be imposed. That is where I would expect evidence of a coherent defensive arrangement, and some sort of pattern of play. I would not expect these things to always work, or even to always be appropriate to every circumstance, but I would expect to see that they exist.
It is not results, or even performances per se that have turned my vote. It is just how much of a shambles we are in both of these ‘coachable’ respects. I felt in summer that a ‘pressing’ game was risky for Palace. A month ago, I thought the same but was prepared to wait and see if Sage could drill it into the players, or maybe change his approach. What I have seen is that the team seems to have varied its approach from deep (Fulham in the cup) to unclear (Brighton, Newcastle) to high press (Hoffenheim) but not once looked coordinated nor organised.
I had thought it was perhaps a matter of whether the Sage approach suited the players we had and the league we are in, but then came to feel the more burning question was whether Sage and his staff are at all capable as coaches.
Last night was the final straw. The pressing game is what Sage wanted to bring, it’s what he goes back to fairly regularly (even if not every week), and should be his strong suit. Instead, it is an utter shambles. I have coached a bit myself at low levels and would be embarrassed if a defence I had been given time to coach got dragged about all over the place like that. It would honestly be unacceptable at lower non-league level.
All methods of play have a basic idea, which a coach then turns into individual but related jobs/instructions, supported thereafter by fine details to make it all work. If our players have clear jobs, then they do not seem to relate to each other that I can see. I certainly have no evidence that Sage and his staff have coached the necessary detail nor, frankly, that they are able.
Much the same is true of our use of the ball. This is an area where modern coaches install very formalised, almost robotic patterns in a team. Too much so in many instances, to my mind. I don’t want to see Palace getting caught trying to play out like Southampton under Russell Martin, or even taking risks but getting it right fairly often like Villa under Emery. Set patterns of play can be a bit of a coaches vanity project. Fine by me if they just go long. They don’t, though. They get caught over and again, and all of it seems off-the-cuff. Again, no coached detail.
Ultimately, I have gone from doubting that Palace are capable of succeeding with what I took to be the Sage approach, to worrying that Sage just isn’t very good at coaching it anyway, to now feeling like we may have appointed relative amateurs who do more harm than good.
For me, the work of a coach is most clearly seen in the defensive and middle thirds of the pitch. That is where, both in and out of possession, some sort of structure can be imposed. That is where I would expect evidence of a coherent defensive arrangement, and some sort of pattern of play. I would not expect these things to always work, or even to always be appropriate to every circumstance, but I would expect to see that they exist.
It is not results, or even performances per se that have turned my vote. It is just how much of a shambles we are in both of these ‘coachable’ respects. I felt in summer that a ‘pressing’ game was risky for Palace. A month ago, I thought the same but was prepared to wait and see if Sage could drill it into the players, or maybe change his approach. What I have seen is that the team seems to have varied its approach from deep (Fulham in the cup) to unclear (Brighton, Newcastle) to high press (Hoffenheim) but not once looked coordinated nor organised.
I had thought it was perhaps a matter of whether the Sage approach suited the players we had and the league we are in, but then came to feel the more burning question was whether Sage and his staff are at all capable as coaches.
Last night was the final straw. The pressing game is what Sage wanted to bring, it’s what he goes back to fairly regularly (even if not every week), and should be his strong suit. Instead, it is an utter shambles. I have coached a bit myself at low levels and would be embarrassed if a defence I had been given time to coach got dragged about all over the place like that. It would honestly be unacceptable at lower non-league level.
All methods of play have a basic idea, which a coach then turns into individual but related jobs/instructions, supported thereafter by fine details to make it all work. If our players have clear jobs, then they do not seem to relate to each other that I can see. I certainly have no evidence that Sage and his staff have coached the necessary detail nor, frankly, that they are able.
Much the same is true of our use of the ball. This is an area where modern coaches install very formalised, almost robotic patterns in a team. Too much so in many instances, to my mind. I don’t want to see Palace getting caught trying to play out like Southampton under Russell Martin, or even taking risks but getting it right fairly often like Villa under Emery. Set patterns of play can be a bit of a coaches vanity project. Fine by me if they just go long. They don’t, though. They get caught over and again, and all of it seems off-the-cuff. Again, no coached detail.
Ultimately, I have gone from doubting that Palace are capable of succeeding with what I took to be the Sage approach, to worrying that Sage just isn’t very good at coaching it anyway, to now feeling like we may have appointed relative amateurs who do more harm than good.
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I probably would but I prefer my life in the Cotswolds with my horses and dog. I don’t want to be a chairman of a football club. And tbh I really wish Steve Parish the best, because that would mean the best for Palace, I just think he took his eye off the ball this season. And things happen fast in football, look at Leicester and West Ham. We could be next.
Teddy Eagle
Member
- Country
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Scotland
Just for Gits and Shiggles let's imagine we stuff Liverpool. Would that buy Sage more time or is his goose pre-cooked?
Geoff Thomas
Member
- Location
- Tonbridge -
- Country
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England
Many of our players speek fluent French so......
Well thats just silly if we have no one lined up. Please dont say Paddy. He cant even sort out our defence!
No fight? What game were you watching? We never gave up. Hence the 87th minute equaliser
Rubbish
doombear
Member
- Location
- Too far from Selhurst Park
- Country
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England
That's not his job. There isn't a specific defensive coach (and it shows)!
eaglesdare
Member
- Country
Australia
I didint say lack of fight. Our defence is shocking. We've not scored a goal in the last 3 league games either.
ASCPFC
Member
- Location
- Pro-Cathedral/caravan park
- Country
-
Ireland
If we won 1-0 and showed we can defend, then there might be a conservation. Even 0-0 or 1-1. Mainly need to see a proper, organised defence.
If we play Strand-Larsen we have to cross to him. If we play Nketiah we have to play to feet.
We need to see basic, normal ideas.
We also cannot just crumble at set pieces.
It depends if you think Sage is helping the team or hindering it. If you think he is hindering the team then getting rid immediately is exactly the right thing to do even if you don’t have anyone else lined up. FDB was so toxic he had to go as quickly as possible. Are we there with Sage? Probably not but I am struggling to see how the team would be worse off in the short term under a caretaker
This
Our defensive shape is good. We hold a good line. We press as a three and retreat as a three.
All of this is good coaching and defensive drilling on the training ground.
Every goal we have conceded has been down to individual error. This cannot be the manager's fault if there are no alternatives on the bench. Or if the the alternatives are just as poor.
Canvot thinks he's a baller and keeps taking stupid risks in front of goal. Riad is made of glass, Richards looks like he needs a quality player next to him to hold his hand. Honest is clearly young, inexperienced and out of his depth. Disasi's being dropped for turning up late to an important team meeting says it all about his attitude. On the pitch he often looks uninterested. Villa said the same about him. Then theres Tomiyasu. Always injured but average at best when fit!
What does it say about these players that a defencive midfielder (Lerma) is now regularly getting picked ahead of some of these guys? Its because they are crap. It might not be intentional but some are inexperienced, some are indifferent but ALL lack concentration levels for 90 minutes.
Now if we sack Sage and another manager comes in and we suddenly defend really well with exactly the same players I'll be the first to hold my hand up and admit I was wrong but I dont think so. Sage can only work with what he has and what he has is just not good enough. Thats the owners fault. No one else.
Now I'd expect us to continue leaking stupid avoidable goals until we buy some quality defenders but I'd expect that regardless of who the manager is.
I don’t think the defensive players are great but I really can’t see how you can say our defensive shape is good. It just isn’t and it regularly leaves our back three exposed.