Sage in or out

[martinelliff]

It is worth noting that Sage's win percentage is 38.5% which is only eclipsed by Glasner in the last 30 years when Dave Basset had his only season in charge. Perhaps it shows how the fans expectations have changed.

 

[Team of the (20)80s]

It is worth noting that Sage's win percentage is 38.5% which is only eclipsed by Glasner in the last 30 years when Dave Basset had his only season in charge. Perhaps it shows how the fans expectations have changed.

Yeah I think that’s a fair point. As the 5YP described it, we’ve had a bit of feast or famine - wins or bad losses without many hard fought draws, that helps the win percentage a bit more than it helps the league table.

 

[park the bus]

Coventry 2 up and having a good go under Lampard, which means we're in the bottom 3 under Sage. Sage hasn't been dealt the best hand, but that's no excuse for the way he's gone about setting up his team. Points needed against Spurs or goodbye.

 

[eritheagle]

Coventry 2 up and having a good go under Lampard, which means we're in the bottom 3 under Sage. Sage hasn't been dealt the best hand, but that's no excuse for the way he's gone about setting up his team. Points needed against Spurs or goodbye.

Especailly as the sunderland chairman and mary knickers will have their fingers hovering over the 'sack' button!! Along with parish It may be the first
One to press it stays up!!

 

[ASCPFC]

Especailly as the sunderland chairman and mary knickers will have their fingers hovering over the 'sack' button!! Along with parish It may be the first
One to press it stays up!!

And Dyche probably would go back.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

It is worth noting that Sage's win percentage is 38.5% which is only eclipsed by Glasner in the last 30 years when Dave Basset had his only season in charge. Perhaps it shows how the fans expectations have changed.

We've won 2 of 8 league games, so I presume this win percentage includes cup wins? Obviously a win is a win, but I'm not sure the stat tells the story in this instance.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

I've been thinking about the difference between a defensive approach and defensive organisation.

Taking a more defensive approach (sitting 11 men behind the ball in your own half all the time) is not guaranteed to improve defensive performances by itself. It might even make it worse, as you invite more pressure.

Defensive organisation (everyone having a clear understanding of where to be at what point, what their jobs are, and how to work in conjunction with those around them) is what matters.

A few weeks ago it seemed to me that Sage's chosen approach was to commit bodies to attacking positions, then press the opposition high up the pitch when we lost the ball. I thought that was a highly questionable approach given the type and quality of our players. A poor fit, whether or not Sage was any good at coaching it.

After Fulham away in the league I thought perhaps Sage would persevere with that approach, and we would see if he could successfully coach it into the players. Organisation would follow approach, over time. Hopefully.

More recently I've found it harder to see what the approach is. We pressed Besiktas ferociously for 45 minutes. We dropped off very deep against Fulham, at least in the first half. Mostly, though, it's been quite non-descript.

I wonder if Sage has deliberately moved away from his original approach (hard to blame him) but, in so doing, lost his way when it comes to organisation? It can't be easy to drill a team into shape if you are moving around between approaches looking for something to stick.

I don't care what approach he chooses (although I really doubt pressing is wise). I want to see signs of coherent organisation. I want players to look like they know what they ought to be doing, even if they fail.

I'll take defeat against spurs and Liverpool if I see a clear plan it terms of defensive detail.

Sage needs to be clear in his mind on what it looks like, though, before we can ever find out if he can coach it.

 

[PatrickA]

With regard to your final sentence, if we lose to Spurs and Liverpool we're likely to see a new defensive approach- but under a new manager.

 

[Nicholas91]

Just my opinion of course, but I’d like to see him gone tomorrow if we lose today.

 

[Nutmegyeti]

The problem with Sage is that defensively, we look an absolute shambles. We use zonal marking, and virtually every time a ball comes into our box, we look like we’re about to concede.

Then there’s the obsession with playing out from the back when we’re clearly not built for it. In theory, we’ve got two big strikers who are both capable of holding the ball up, so why aren’t we using that?

Look at the goal in the FA Cup final against Man City. We’d spent 20 minutes sitting deep, then Chris Richards played the ball forward to Mateta, he played it to Kamada, Munoz made the overlapping run, and we scored. Simple, effective football.

Was there any danger of that ball immediately coming back at us and ending up in our net three seconds later after Richards played it out? - No. Yet we insist on taking ridiculous risks playing out from the back which naive football.

My issue with Sage is that he then stands on the touchline looking completely gormless, seemingly wondering why the same tactics aren’t working.

Why aren’t we marking man for man at corners? Why aren’t we packing out the midfield to give the defence some protection? Why are we persisting with a system that clearly doesn’t suit the players we’ve got?

I’m not a Premier League manager, so presumably I’m missing something.

Then again, I’m increasingly unconvinced that Sage is a Premier League manager either.

 

[Jacey]

From bad to worse,me thinks after Liverpool game, we will be propping up the bottom of the table with our unrivalled goal difference.

 

[eritheagle]

From bad to worse,me thinks after Liverpool game, we will be propping up the bottom of the table with our unrivalled goal difference.

We’re gonna get a draw then!!

That’s positive!!

 

[PatrickA]

We're now without Mateta for 3 games and there's no trace of Sarr coming back.
It looks like it's going to be a season of struggle.
Ask yourself this - is Sage a manager for a struggling team amongst the muck and nettles around the bottom of the table?

I honestly don't think he is, as likeable a bloke as he might seem.

For me it's now a question of when, not if, and it's all about who we bring in.

 

[JHB]

We need rid of Sage with immediate effect. We are not good at anything under him. I really can’t tell you how he is trying to win games in the league. I haven’t seen a single thing that shows he has any sort of positive impact whatsoever. We haven’t put in a single good or complete performance under him. Most worryingly we are getting worse in the Legaue. He just has to go and then a new person can try and build from the rubble.

 

[TheBigToePunt]

ContenderOdds

Sean Dyche1/2
Thomas Frank3/1
Robbie Keane10/1
Kieran McKenna12/1
Rob Edwards12/1
Eddie Howe12/1
Lee Carsley16/1
Scott Parker16/1
Arne Slot16/1
Vitor Matos16/1
Vitor Pereira16/1
Steve Cooper16/1

I can't see the odds for Elvis or Shergar.

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

Next two games, then see.

I think give it until Liverpool then he's gone

 

[DANGERCLOSE]

With regard to your final sentence, if we lose to Spurs and Liverpool we're likely to see a new defensive approach- but under a new manager.

Agreed

 

[elgin eeagle]

Agree if we take our chances, but if our defending is going to give up chances as it has in so many of our games getting a result will be really difficult. Get the defending right we can beat anyone.

Not when Mateta does for us and probably Sage for the next 3 games (2 previously winnable) by getting himself stupidly sent off after 10 minutes. Now relying on Nketiah against Liverpool, Coventry and Hull. I guess we will appeal it.

 

[Winter_Raven]

We need rid of Sage with immediate effect. We are not good at anything under him. I really can’t tell you how he is trying to win games in the league. I haven’t seen a single thing that shows he has any sort of positive impact whatsoever. We haven’t put in a single good or complete performance under him. Most worryingly we are getting worse in the Legaue. He just has to go and then a new person can try and build from the rubble.

Even the 2 league games we won and the cups, we haven't been good. I agree with this post. There is no signs of anything positive.

 

[Dumademption]

Personally I would keep Sage. I think if he goes he will end up being successful elsewhere and we will wonder why we sacked him. Meanwhile the fundamental issues at our club will remain. Sage has had such a bad hand dealt to him so far this season. Riad injured straight away, Tomiyasu injured straight away, Sarr out virtually all matches so far. Disasi sent off straight away, Henderson out for most matches, Mateta out and once he's back sent off straight away. Have we actually been able to play the same 11 for 2 games this season? In between all that there is actually a system that appears to be building, we do create chances, we are getting better at the back. It does feel like if we were able to actually have a few matches with the same 11 we would get results and I see us winning both the Coventry and Hull games.

The real issue at the club is our transfer strategy. Guess what team has spent the most in January in the last 2 season? Ok trick question it was actually City, but we are 2nd after City and it's a pretty big gap to third. Guess who has spent the least in the summer windows? That's right it's us making around 80 million in profit in summer transfers. Hull spent virtually the same in one summer transfer window as we have spent in 3 and we had something like 250m of sales extra to spend. We can sack Sage if we want, dump a load of money in January and stay in the prem, but we will end up right back where we started. Personally I would rather give him the Hull and Coventry games and hope our players are smart enough to not get sent off within 20 minutes again so we can actually try and build some momentum.