Sage in or out

[MarkA333]

The table does not lie. We are not the worst team in the division.
Last time I looked nearly scoring and missing sitters didn't count. If Forest and Fulham dont score as many as we do in a game most with a brain would come to the conclusion we deserved to win.

We can talk about luck (good and bad) all day long. Plenty of people on here like to slag Palace off when we miss chance after chance but you seem to almost feel sorry for the opposition when they do it.

Oh…it’s you again)

Look….there is no point in engaging with you. I am a Palace supporter through and through. Just calling it as I see it. Enjoy life.

 

[park the bus]

I think the can be no doubt the first eleven is weaker than the one that started last season. However, we saw against Leeds that they can play well enough to compete with a decent side when set up correctly. Maybe that was a one off but it is clear t he tactics were different that day. So while I think this team is not as good on paper as the one that started last year it should be good enough to be better than we’ve seen and certainly not the worst defence in the division on almost every measure

I made a statement along the lines of "this is one of the worst squads we've had in the Premiership, excepting one or two players". I had time think think about what I said and you know, the back line is far worse than any available to previous managers excepting Henderson and Mitchell. In midfield I'd much prefer Milivojevic, MacArthur and Cabaye, and who would swap Zaha for Pino? A decent striker we've been missing for some while so that's a difficult one to choose from. Our decline has been slow but steady and selling our best players and bringing in inferior replacements is beginning to bite. To ask Pierre Sage to pick up where Glasner left off and replicate what made us briefly successful seems rather fanciful; the squad simply isn't good enough and with the extra burden of Europe it's going to be a long hard season for whoever is at the helm.

 

[est1905]

I vote in for now. I agree with the Syd fella. Sage was dealt a shitty hand and its just not fair to heap all the blame on to him.
I get that he has the courage of his convictions and want to coach/play his way. Thats admirable but even the very best managers sometimes realise you have to temperarily abandon the principles, hit the pause button and sort out the defence. For me, thats where we are at. I love the fact he wants to play on the front foot and at times our team has looked good going forward but you cant do that from a base that has next to no defence.
I'd like to see the next couple of games much tighter (even if it means our own chances reduce dramatically) and get back to being hard to beat and go from there. That means Kalaili and Mitchell pulling in and doing more at the back. If we can do that I see a way out of this mess for Sage. If not and things continue the way they are I'd expect (and hope for) a change to be made. For the next 2 or 3 weeks though I'd like to see everyone get behind him and give him a chance.

 

[Mark B]

With the changes of personnel and the injuries, I don't see what a switch right now would do for us other then add more confusion. Between the international breaks and UEFA, this hasn't been a great time to roll out a new strategy so lets give him a bit of grace.

And then if we don't get better, fire him April.

 

[est1905]

I made a statement along the lines of "this is one of the worst squads we've had in the Premiership, excepting one or two players". I had time think think about what I said and you know, the back line is far worse than any available to previous managers excepting Henderson and Mitchell. In midfield I'd much prefer Milivojevic, MacArthur and Cabaye, and who would swap Zaha for Pino? A decent striker we've been missing for some while so that's a difficult one to choose from. Our decline has been slow but steady and selling our best players and bringing in inferior replacements is beginning to bite. To ask Pierre Sage to pick up where Glasner left off and replicate what made us briefly successful seems rather fanciful; the squad simply isn't good enough and with the extra burden of Europe it's going to be a long hard season for whoever is at the helm.

Its funny how a few bad results change opinion. I'm not saying you but many were declaring our squad (not team) the strongest it has ever been. There could be something in that as when every one is fit we have two (in some cases three) players for every position. We have never had that in my lifetime and I'm old! That said, some of these players are not currently either up to the job or not pulling their weight or injured. This is not an enviable task but one that Sage has to find answers to. In France he is highly respected at solving tactical problems. I know the EPL is a bigger beast but If everyone is pulling in the same direction I think he can turn it around. He wont get limitless time but I think he derserves 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[est1905]

With the changes of personnel and the injuries, I don't see what a switch right now would do for us other then add more confusion. Between the international breaks and UEFA, this hasn't been a great time to roll out a new strategy so lets give him a bit of grace.

And then if we don't get better, fire him April.

April would be too late, the damage will have been done by then. He deserves more time but not too much time

 

[PatFromSouthCarolina]

I feel like you've got to have 4 in the back at this point. Say Mitchell, Tomiyasu, Richards, and Lerma. Give the outside guys the freedom to push up the pitch, but those 2 guys in the middle have got to stay in position. They're caught in no-man's land way too often.

Maybe drop Kamada back with Wharton and Timber, then you have Pino/Sarr, then Mateta at the 9.

That's a solid, veteran Premiere League 11 IMO until we get things sorted out.

And of course the lineup can be adjusted based on who we play in Europe.

 

[park the bus]

April would be too late, the damage will have been done by then. He deserves more time but not too much time

We all know that if we are anywhere near the relegation zone by December Parish will bring someone else in. Parish is on record as saying the Premiership is the be all and end all and where we have to be. He doesn't hesitate when that status is threatened.

 

[est1905]

I feel like you've got to have 4 in the back at this point. Say Mitchell, Tomiyasu, Richards, and Lerma. Give the outside guys the freedom to push up the pitch, but those 2 guys in the middle have got to stay in position. They're caught in no-man's land way too often.

Maybe drop Kamada back with Wharton and Timber, then you have Pino/Sarr, then Mateta at the 9.

That's a solid, veteran Premiere League 11 IMO until we get things sorted out.

And of course the lineup can be adjusted based on who we play in Europe.

With the system our players are used to we'd be better off playing 5 at the back and using the full backs as wide defenders. I'd actually tell Kalaili and Mitchell they'll be fined if they cross the half way line!

 

[JHB]

I made a statement along the lines of "this is one of the worst squads we've had in the Premiership, excepting one or two players". I had time think think about what I said and you know, the back line is far worse than any available to previous managers excepting Henderson and Mitchell. In midfield I'd much prefer Milivojevic, MacArthur and Cabaye, and who would swap Zaha for Pino? A decent striker we've been missing for some while so that's a difficult one to choose from. Our decline has been slow but steady and selling our best players and bringing in inferior replacements is beginning to bite. To ask Pierre Sage to pick up where Glasner left off and replicate what made us briefly successful seems rather fanciful; the squad simply isn't good enough and with the extra burden of Europe it's going to be a long hard season for whoever is at the helm.

I don’t know that it’s one of the worst squads we’ve had but it’s definitely not as good as recent ones. Our transfer business was pretty awful. Signing multiple number tens we didn’t need and who are worse than what we had was daft. Not signing a decent centre back and replacing Munoz with a player who doesn’t look up to it (so far). Of our signings only Timber looks anything close to good enough so far and even then his lack of positional sense is one reason the midfield is a mess.

For that reason I didn’t expect Sage to replicate Glasner’s success in winning things. I had precisely zero expectations we’d get anywhere near that. What I also didn’t expect was a manager to try and then stick with absolutely suicidal tactics that mean our defence is the worst I’ve seen us have since we came up. As others have said he either changes it immediately or he is going to be sacked as his position will be untenable

 

[grumpymort]

With the system our players are used to we'd be better off playing 5 at the back and using the full backs as wide defenders. I'd actually tell Kalaili and Mitchell they'll be fined if they cross the half way line!

That is what we play have you even been watching the games?

Go back and watch some of the games when we are defending we have 5 at the back.

Sage is too much of an open flow attacking style which you can get away with in France not in premier League unless you are one of the top clubs. (This is why we are scoring more as well but leaving massive gap in midfield)

 

[est1905]

That is what we play have you even been watching the games?

Go back and watch some of the games when we are defending we have 5 at the back.

Sage is too much of an open flow attacking style which you can get away with in France not in premier League unless you are one of the top clubs. (This is why we are scoring more as well but leaving massive gap in midfield)

Thats actually rubbish. If YOU watch any of the games you'll see Kalaili is hardly ever back defending and Mitchell not much better. I'm talking about not allowing them to get forward until we have a handle on this defence.
Or did I dream Mitchell and Kalaili scoring in recent times?

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Larsen is good in the air, McNeil on the left crossing, Pino on the right, there is your starting point

 

[Martin 78]

I know we’ve been poor on the pitch but the manager sets the team up.
Would a 4-3-3 be a more solid defence and midfield for now.
I like us all was raging after Sunday and thought sack him but I’ve calmed down now so let’s get behind him and hope he has the managerial qualities to sort us out.

 

[DenTyler]

I’ve been thinking about the question of this thread for a couple of days.

I just can’t blame Sage fully.

Do I think he’s out of his depth, probably. Do i think it’s his fault, not entirely.

He came in and I am sure he knew what type of club we are. Take a good look at what happened this summer. The team is a pale shadow of the golden team, taking Max away and buying nobody is bordering on self abuse. Parish rolled the dice and its failed… it happens. I don’t think anybody blames Parish and let’s look at where we were in previous years under other chairman. Survival and penny pinching is in his blood.

However… Sage has what he has right now and nothing can change that. Not putting Lerma in the euro squad is just madness with the players we have at the back.

If now after the start of the season and especially what happened on Sunday, sage does not change things then i would say it starts to become his fault. If he goes the next person, likely to be a Dyche will have the exact same players for a couple of months.
As others have said, Larson is not going to out run a defender like an Ian Wright. So play players around him that will get crosses in so the kid can at least have a chance. Play 4 at the back, they are all as bad as each other but Mitchell I feel is a class left back so thats one place sorted, I would put Lerma in for prem games too for his ability to fight, the rest can draw straws but they play as a solid defensive unit.
Play Hughes or Doucoure has the holding midfielder shielding the back line.
Wharton and Kamada or Timber in front of him, then whoever can cross the ball either side of Larson. That’s it. Nothing fancy but a solid back line and a tougher midfield and stop the leak. Once the leak is fixed you can start putting things back together.

Sage won’t though.

I also will never understand selling Max when he still had so long to go on his contract.

 

[johnny the eagle]

I'd pretty much say we weren't when we won three bits of silverware, but unfortunately we are again

Don't take us long to revert back to type.

 

[JHB]

I’ve been thinking about the question of this thread for a couple of days.

I just can’t blame Sage fully.

Do I think he’s out of his depth, probably. Do i think it’s his fault, not entirely.

He came in and I am sure he knew what type of club we are. Take a good look at what happened this summer. The team is a pale shadow of the golden team, taking Max away and buying nobody is bordering on self abuse. Parish rolled the dice and its failed… it happens. I don’t think anybody blames Parish and let’s look at where we were in previous years under other chairman. Survival and penny pinching is in his blood.

However… Sage has what he has right now and nothing can change that. Not putting Lerma in the euro squad is just madness with the players we have at the back.

If now after the start of the season and especially what happened on Sunday, sage does not change things then i would say it starts to become his fault. If he goes the next person, likely to be a Dyche will have the exact same players for a couple of months.
As others have said, Larson is not going to out run a defender like an Ian Wright. So play players around him that will get crosses in so the kid can at least have a chance. Play 4 at the back, they are all as bad as each other but Mitchell I feel is a class left back so thats one place sorted, I would put Lerma in for prem games too for his ability to fight, the rest can draw straws but they play as a solid defensive unit.
Play Hughes or Doucoure has the holding midfielder shielding the back line.
Wharton and Kamada or Timber in front of him, then whoever can cross the ball either side of Larson. That’s it. Nothing fancy but a solid back line and a tougher midfield and stop the leak. Once the leak is fixed you can start putting things back together.

Sage won’t though.

I also will never understand selling Max when he still had so long to go on his contract.

Good post. Have to say I agree with the fact Sage won’t change. That is what will probably cost him in his job. He is seemingly unwilling or unable to change the approach to one that works in the Premier League or the players believe in.

Reading the reports. Not just the click bait ones but the one from Ed Aarons for example, it sounds like it was touch and go that he hasn’t got the sack already and he has fallen out with Parish. Sounds like he has basically been told to change tactics. If he doesn’t at this stage then he’s either incredibly stubborn or realises he isn’t up to the job.

 

[Nicholas91]

I’ve been thinking about the question of this thread for a couple of days.

I just can’t blame Sage fully.

Do I think he’s out of his depth, probably. Do i think it’s his fault, not entirely.

He came in and I am sure he knew what type of club we are. Take a good look at what happened this summer. The team is a pale shadow of the golden team, taking Max away and buying nobody is bordering on self abuse. Parish rolled the dice and its failed… it happens. I don’t think anybody blames Parish and let’s look at where we were in previous years under other chairman. Survival and penny pinching is in his blood.

However… Sage has what he has right now and nothing can change that. Not putting Lerma in the euro squad is just madness with the players we have at the back.

If now after the start of the season and especially what happened on Sunday, sage does not change things then i would say it starts to become his fault. If he goes the next person, likely to be a Dyche will have the exact same players for a couple of months.
As others have said, Larson is not going to out run a defender like an Ian Wright. So play players around him that will get crosses in so the kid can at least have a chance. Play 4 at the back, they are all as bad as each other but Mitchell I feel is a class left back so thats one place sorted, I would put Lerma in for prem games too for his ability to fight, the rest can draw straws but they play as a solid defensive unit.
Play Hughes or Doucoure has the holding midfielder shielding the back line.
Wharton and Kamada or Timber in front of him, then whoever can cross the ball either side of Larson. That’s it. Nothing fancy but a solid back line and a tougher midfield and stop the leak. Once the leak is fixed you can start putting things back together.

Sage won’t though.

I also will never understand selling Max when he still had so long to go on his contract.

Great post, agree with a lot, if not everything, here.

The line in bold summarises my thinking entirely.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

I’ve been thinking about the question of this thread for a couple of days.

I just can’t blame Sage fully.

Do I think he’s out of his depth, probably. Do i think it’s his fault, not entirely.

He came in and I am sure he knew what type of club we are. Take a good look at what happened this summer. The team is a pale shadow of the golden team, taking Max away and buying nobody is bordering on self abuse. Parish rolled the dice and its failed… it happens. I don’t think anybody blames Parish and let’s look at where we were in previous years under other chairman. Survival and penny pinching is in his blood.

However… Sage has what he has right now and nothing can change that. Not putting Lerma in the euro squad is just madness with the players we have at the back.

If now after the start of the season and especially what happened on Sunday, sage does not change things then i would say it starts to become his fault. If he goes the next person, likely to be a Dyche will have the exact same players for a couple of months.
As others have said, Larson is not going to out run a defender like an Ian Wright. So play players around him that will get crosses in so the kid can at least have a chance. Play 4 at the back, they are all as bad as each other but Mitchell I feel is a class left back so thats one place sorted, I would put Lerma in for prem games too for his ability to fight, the rest can draw straws but they play as a solid defensive unit.
Play Hughes or Doucoure has the holding midfielder shielding the back line.
Wharton and Kamada or Timber in front of him, then whoever can cross the ball either side of Larson. That’s it. Nothing fancy but a solid back line and a tougher midfield and stop the leak. Once the leak is fixed you can start putting things back together.

Sage won’t though.

I also will never understand selling Max when he still had so long to go on his contract.

Both statements, are good, you cant blame him for taking the job, ambition to improve, but i think he knows he has taken on to much, Rosenior part 2, he needs to work with Paddy and learn how to adjust his team accordingly

 

[PatrickA]

Crystal Palace to give Sage more time but manager under serious scrutiny

Pierre Sage is under severe pressure after Crystal Palace’s thrashing at Brighton, with Kieran McKenna and Thomas Frank among the potential candidates to replace him

www.theguardian.com

The Aarons article which suggests that
- Parish was unhappy about Canvot's omission earlier in the season
- Parish was unhappy about the Wharton substitution v Ioswich
- Sage didn't get the players he wanted in the window creating tensions with Parish
- Sage has been informed that things must improve or he's out

It strikes me as informed gossip which may not tell the full story, but gives a flavour of leaks from the club.
It doesn't look like a happy or positive relationship and it will take a remarkable turnaround for Sage to remain in post.