Labour Party politics

[CPFCSaturn]

Why? The bloke is fast becoming unveiled as a lying t***. What staggers me is those who bleat about democracy that could not bring themselves to accept the result and are still crying about it 10 years on.
Are you doing a Burnham and suggesting there was outside interference? Presumably there was no outside attempts to keep us in or was there?

A politician is a liar!? No way.

Literally everyone has accepted the result. What meaningful movement or campaign is there to rejoin the EU? Where does it get talked about..? You're reeling off soundbites that are years and years out of date.

You accuse others of 'still crying about it' yet you are the one discussing a 2026 local election in the context of the candidates position on Brexit. No one who voted remain is making arguments like that. I would reflect on who is really obsessed.

Of course there was significant outside interference - that's not a matter of opinion.

 

[chris123]

That’s not quite what I meant - by ‘have the conversation’ I mean at national level, i.e. our media and politicians being honest about the campaigns and what’s happened since. I don’t think that’s really happened yet.

Buyers remorse has certainly not set in from what I see - leavers blame the type of Brexit we got, or the people who executed it, or the weather, or the star alignments or anything but the decision itself.

There is also just a real imbalance in terms of the importance of the topic. For a lot of leavers, rightly or wrongly, Brexit is a core part of their political identity and a complete red line - as you see on here, the second anyone hints at revisiting the topic, it’s a no-go. For most people who voted remain, the feeling isn't as strong and the prospect of rejoining is a mild positive at best.

Put any commitment to rejoin in a manifesto, with or without a referendum, and you lose more votes than you gain.

What about the Lisbon Treaty, that was enough for me..

 

[Spiderman]

A politician is a liar!? No way.

Literally everyone has accepted the result. What meaningful movement or campaign is there to rejoin the EU? Where does it get talked about..? You're reeling off soundbites that are years and years out of date.

You accuse others of 'still crying about it' yet you are the one discussing a 2026 local election in the context of the candidates position on Brexit. No one who voted remain is making arguments like that. I would reflect on who is really obsessed.

Of course there was significant outside interference - that's not a matter of opinion.

This is a joke, right? So no posters on here have been totally obsessed with rejoining the EU since 2016. As Wissie would say, can you provide proof of the interference or is it just your opinion?

 

[Spiderman]

That’s not quite what I meant - by ‘have the conversation’ I mean at national level, i.e. our media and politicians being honest about the campaigns and what’s happened since. I don’t think that’s really happened yet.

Buyers remorse has certainly not set in from what I see - leavers blame the type of Brexit we got, or the people who executed it, or the weather, or the star alignments or anything but the decision itself.

There is also just a real imbalance in terms of the importance of the topic. For a lot of leavers, rightly or wrongly, Brexit is a core part of their political identity and a complete red line - as you see on here, the second anyone hints at revisiting the topic, it’s a no-go. For most people who voted remain, the feeling isn't as strong and the prospect of rejoining is a mild positive at best.

Put any commitment to rejoin in a manifesto, with or without a referendum, and you lose more votes than you gain.

I’d flip some of your comments around and say, if remain had won, what would the view of remainers be to “revisiting it”? I doubt it would even be discussed because many leavers would have just accepted it ( our household would) and got on with it.
The feelings of Wisdie, Steele, Spindle are incredibly strong about rejoining as are the vast majority on the bbs and that is just a small section of Palace fans on 2 forums.
I find your last paragraph interesting to say the least

 

[Spiderman]

Apologies it is only the Mail but here it is anyway

Sure you want to re-join EU, PM? Germany leads call for 'red tape' cut

The premiers of Germany, Italy and Belgium wrote to Eurocrats asking for an 'emergency brake' on Brussels regulations to protect their businesses and boost growth.

www.dailymail.com

 

[silvertop]

Absolutely all of them.

One of them is a joint approach to addressing the boat people.

Frankly, I am surprised you would oppose this, but then you do surprise me some times.

 

[silvertop]

A politician is a liar!? No way.

Literally everyone has accepted the result. What meaningful movement or campaign is there to rejoin the EU? Where does it get talked about..? You're reeling off soundbites that are years and years out of date.

You accuse others of 'still crying about it' yet you are the one discussing a 2026 local election in the context of the candidates position on Brexit. No one who voted remain is making arguments like that. I would reflect on who is really obsessed.

Of course there was significant outside interference - that's not a matter of opinion.

To be honest, the Lib-Dems, the Greens and the SNP have been clear about rejoining in all of the 10 years since the referendum. But even collectively, they will not get this over the line.

Labour desperately want to go back because you would have to be deluded to still think leaving has done us any good. They do not have a mandate to do it now, but I suspect that many who voted the Starmer landslide expected, at worst, closer ties with the EU and a reversal of the damage caused by the outgoing Tory government. However, they are more than aware that this is a third rail, and I suspect they will quietly shelve a full return but seek to improve our deal.

The Tories, this is their standard existential issue and the problem that has dogged their party for decades. The parliamentary party, on the whole, know that returning would be a good thing, but how can they support it? It would be a second volte face on the one that brought them electoral success under Johnson. Surely their insincerity will be spotted this time? They would be going against many on their back bench and, probably, the majority of their base. And they would hemorrhage votes to Reform and Restore.

I can't see a return happening any time soon. But I can see improved terms.

 

[palace99]

To be honest, the Lib-Dems, the Greens and the SNP have been clear about rejoining in all of the 10 years since the referendum. But even collectively, they will not get this over the line.

Labour desperately want to go back because you would have to be deluded to still think leaving has done us any good. They do not have a mandate to do it now, but I suspect that many who voted the Starmer landslide expected, at worst, closer ties with the EU and a reversal of the damage caused by the outgoing Tory government. However, they are more than aware that this is a third rail, and I suspect they will quietly shelve a full return but seek to improve our deal.

The Tories, this is their standard existential issue and the problem that has dogged their party for decades. The parliamentary party, on the whole, know that returning would be a good thing, but how can they support it? It would be a second volte face on the one that brought them electoral success under Johnson. Surely their insincerity will be spotted this time? They would be going against many on their back bench and, probably, the majority of their base. And they would hemorrhage votes to Reform and Restore.

I can't see a return happening any time soon. But I can see improved terms.

Agree. Improved terms as they are our largest trading partner and closer ties around reducing immigration and intelligence sharing are surely no brainers.

All can be achieved without re-joining the EU.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

This is a joke, right? So no posters on here have been totally obsessed with rejoining the EU since 2016. As Wissie would say, can you provide proof of the interference or is it just your opinion?

I have no idea, but certainly one or two posters on holmesdale.net is not proof of an actual political movement.

At societal level, I don't see any serious campaign, nor indeed appetite, for us to rejoin the EU.

 

[CPFCSaturn]

I’d flip some of your comments around and say, if remain had won, what would the view of remainers be to “revisiting it”? I doubt it would even be discussed because many leavers would have just accepted it ( our household would) and got on with it.
The feelings of Wisdie, Steele, Spindle are incredibly strong about rejoining as are the vast majority on the bbs and that is just a small section of Palace fans on 2 forums.
I find your last paragraph interesting to say the least

I find the framing that people haven't simply 'got on with it' absolutely bizarre. The fact that posters occasionally express an opinion on a politics forum hardly demonstrates some sort of obsession or an inability to move on. I genuinely can't remember the last time I heard Brexit mentioned in real life, let alone encountered anyone who remains seriously invested in the issue.

I'd suggest that someone who still considers a candidate's position on Brexit relevant to local elections in 2026 is the person who hasn't moved on.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

No blind prejudices from the remain camp then?

None that I ever saw. Just basic common sense and pragmatism rather than hankering after a situation long since gone and now unattainable. The world has changed. We decided not to accept that fact. It was always stupid and that looks ever clearer.

 

[silvertop]

Agree. Improved terms as they are our largest trading partner and closer ties around reducing immigration and intelligence sharing are surely no brainers.

All can be achieved without re-joining the EU.

You would have thought so, but georgenorman on here opposes all of those proposals, and I suspect he is just the tip of the HoL populist spear.

 

[Wisbech Eagle]

That’s not quite what I meant - by ‘have the conversation’ I mean at national level, i.e. our media and politicians being honest about the campaigns and what’s happened since. I don’t think that’s really happened yet.

Buyers remorse has certainly not set in from what I see - leavers blame the type of Brexit we got, or the people who executed it, or the weather, or the star alignments or anything but the decision itself.

There is also just a real imbalance in terms of the importance of the topic. For a lot of leavers, rightly or wrongly, Brexit is a core part of their political identity and a complete red line - as you see on here, the second anyone hints at revisiting the topic, it’s a no-go. For most people who voted remain, the feeling isn't as strong and the prospect of rejoining is a mild positive at best.

Put any commitment to rejoin in a manifesto, with or without a referendum, and you lose more votes than you gain.

On that we disagree. I think it would harvest a lot of votes, especially among the young. I don’t think many who voted to remain have changed their mind, whilst enough who were doubtful, but voted leave, have come to regret their decision. Thus buyer’s remorse. Enough to tip an already finely balanced issue decidedly the other way.

What people won’t want is another tedious political campaign and referendum. Get a clear mandate to rejoin, perhaps not fully to start with, and it will work.

 

[chris123]

On that we disagree. I think it would harvest a lot of votes, especially among the young. I don’t think many who voted to remain have changed their mind, whilst enough who were doubtful, but voted leave, have come to regret their decision. Thus buyer’s remorse. Enough to tip an already finely balanced issue decidedly the other way.

What people won’t want is another tedious political campaign and referendum. Get a clear mandate to rejoin, perhaps not fully to start with, and it will work.

One EU comparable EU country that's thriving.

 

[silvertop]

On that we disagree. I think it would harvest a lot of votes, especially among the young. I don’t think many who voted to remain have changed their mind, whilst enough who were doubtful, but voted leave, have come to regret their decision. Thus buyer’s remorse. Enough to tip an already finely balanced issue decidedly the other way.

And there lies the problem.

The majority would rejoin in a heartbeat and are probably about two thirds. But...

As a wise friend once said, you can never rely on the young.

It will be a very fine win either way. Would you really want to waste the chance by going too early?

It is a grim way of looking at it, but more people need to die before the decision can be put back to the people.

 

[georgenorman]

One of them is a joint approach to addressing the boat people.

Frankly, I am surprised you would oppose this, but then you do surprise me some times.

We are supposed to believe that they 'will "address" the boat people!

 

[ASCPFC]

We are supposed to believe that they 'will "address" the boat people!

They'll give them new addresses.

 

[Spindle]

Societal breakdown in France, this will get very nasty

Greta has turned up, obviously it's about school funding then like the BBC and Guardian claimed

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

It’s staggering to me how central Brexit is to some of your political identities.

The idea that voters in a local election in 2026 should be primarily concerned with the candidates 10-year old stance on Brexit is utter, utter lunacy.

One day there will be an honest conversation on what Brexit was and how it was won, but for now we still have this collective effort to not hurt anyone’s feelings.

You don't know what that means.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I have no idea, but certainly one or two posters on holmesdale.net is not proof of an actual political movement.

At societal level, I don't see any serious campaign, nor indeed appetite, for us to rejoin the EU.

Just when I thought you couldn't look more stupid...