"Horses For Courses"

[Willo]

There were a fair few, myself included, that reached that conclusion.

I feel a bit sorry for Pierre Sage. Coming into a club that has just enjoyed the most successful period in it's history. But as I referred to in another thread, the combination of a write-off of a pre season, a transfer window that looked ' busy ' without necessarily resolving the positional issues we have, injuries and non-availability of key players , is hardly setting him up for success.

Talk of him changing his tactical approach might make for a lively online debate, but the fact is that Sage was hired on the back of that approach. And that's the only constant that he has to hang onto at the moment. So I think it's unlikely that he's going to change it.

I'm not a fan of digging players out in public, justified or not. To me it's the equivalent of dishing out a bollocking to someone in the office in front of their colleagues. Best done behind closed doors. So that is my main criticism of Sage to date.

I'm not expecting much joy in terms of results from the next run of games.

What Sage needs is time, but that's the commodity that can't be bought. And it remains to be seen if Parish gives him that.

Thomas Frank lost 8 of his first 10 games in charge, Brentford persevered with him and he secured promotion for them to the PL.
Andoni Iraola only won 1 of his first 10 PL games at Bournemouth.

 

[PatrickA]

It just goes to show how piss poor Parish & Co's succession planning for the season ahead has been. Even more so when one considers that Glasner gave then ample warning that he was off. On top of that consider the out of character near £90m panic spend on two players. The picture that presents itself is one

Glasner argued that his system wasn't a rigid 343, that it would turn into 325 when attacking and a 541 when defending.
The variance would be due to the positioning of the wing backs and the number 10s at any given time.
When attacking you could see Mitchell crossing to Munoz or vice versa.
When defending the number 10s would take narrow positions in their half.

To a large extent that was effective and we had the players to make it work.

Seven of the FA Cuo Final winning team have not been available in recent games for a variety of reasons.
That machine like approach under Glasner, which I think we can all agree brought us success, has gone and the team now resembles a bunch of strangers.
Understandable perhaps with a new manager and new (and inferior) players, but the Premier League is unforgiving and once the points are lost they are lost.
We don't want to be playing catch up.

Personally, I don't think we can play a system similar to Glasner's without the majority of the players he had.
We would have a better chance with a fit and firing Sarr and Mateta and with a settled and resilient back 3.
Sadly, neither of those conditions are present.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

What Sage needs is time, but that's the commodity that can't be bought. And it remains to be seen if Parish gives him that.

I think if sage had had a good pre season, I.e all our new players in by start of July, no World Cup so all the players came back on time, a good solid eight or so decent friendlies with all the players available he would’ve had much more of a chance of hitting the ground running when the season started. But the poor bugger, pre season was a mess, he’s got to shuffle the pack and experiment during the season now, so it was always going to take time, and I’m sure Parish will have accounted for the mess sage was walking into, the mateta and Sarr issues didn’t help

 

[park the bus]

I think if sage had had a good pre season, I.e all our new players in by start of July, no World Cup so all the players came back on time, a good solid eight or so decent friendlies with all the players available he would’ve had much more of a chance of hitting the ground running when the season started. But the poor bugger, pre season was a mess, he’s got to shuffle the pack and experiment during the season now, so it was always going to take time, and I’m sure Parish will have accounted for the mess sage was walking into, the mateta and Sarr issues didn’t help

Yes, it seems that way. Nevertheless the team currently are putting in relegation candidate performances - 11 after just 4 games, only 3 points from a potential 12 with a trip to a rampant Leeds up next. Time is of the essence but Sage doesn't really have much time to stop the slide (which incidentally began way back last season).
Whatever way one looks at it this is a results based business.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

Yes, it seems that way. Nevertheless the team currently are putting in relegation candidate performances - 11 after just 4 games, only 3 points from a potential 12 with a trip to a rampant Leeds up next. Time is of the essence but Sage doesn't really have much time to stop the slide (which incidentally began way back last season).
Whatever way one looks at it this is a results based business.

Glasner didn’t win for the first nine games the start of the season we won the fa cup, you don’t get much more relegation form than that

 

[Palacesince64]

Given how bad we were at the end of last season, the limited pre-season, the number of new players, loss of form of our most creative midfielder, and the behaviour of our goal scoring prima donnas, I doubt even Pep would have this team putting at this stage. It will take til Christmas for this team to really settle. Meantime we just need to pick up a few points here and there and stay out of the bottom three if possible. It would be madness to change managers before then and expect a change in fortunes.

 

[JHB]

Given how bad we were at the end of last season, the limited pre-season, the number of new players, loss of form of our most creative midfielder, and the behaviour of our goal scoring prima donnas, I doubt even Pep would have this team putting at this stage. It will take til Christmas for this team to really settle. Meantime we just need to pick up a few points here and there and stay out of the bottom three if possible. It would be madness to change managers before then and expect a change in fortunes.

If West Ham had changed their manager earlier last season they’d still be playing Premier League football.

 

[ASCPFC]

If West Ham had changed their manager earlier last season they’d still be playing Premier League football.

Not sure if they had changed to Nuno that it would have worked.

 

[Willo]

Glasner didn’t win for the first nine games the start of the season we won the fa cup, you don’t get much more relegation form than that

Our first win was in our 9th PL game that season, a 1-0 victory over Tottenham, however Glasner did have 'Credit in the bank' from the previous campaign when we were 15th when he 'Took up the reins' and finished in 10th place.

 

[park the bus]

Glasner didn’t win for the first nine games the start of the season we won the fa cup, you don’t get much more relegation form than that

Yes, but he had a storming finish to the previous season when he took over from Roy, and things where looking rosy but then Olise was sold which meant that level wasn't going to be immediately attained again. I think he had shown enough to leave him in the post.
The same applies to Sage - show us what you've got. Certainly by mid October performances must improve.

 

[doombear]

Yes, but he had a storming finish to the previous season when he took over from Roy, and things where looking rosy but then Olise was sold which meant that level wasn't going to be immediately attained again. I think he had shown enough to leave him in the post.
The same applies to Sage - show us what you've got. Certainly by mid October performances must improve.

Why specifically mid-October?

 

[PatrickA]

At the press conference just now Wharton was asked about what is different tactically between Sage and Glasner.
He said the players are now required to press higher and more aggressively, including for opposition goal kicks.

As others have pointed out in these forums, there is a risk in doing this as only the best teams can usually play with this way.

In Glasner's first season for the last half dozen games we did this very successfully but had Eze Olise and Mateta on fire as front 3 ,Wharton and Hughes forming a very effective partnership and Munoz playing with a scary intensity.
We boxed teams in and seemingly scored at will.

It remains to be seen if we can get results with a high pressing style, but it could be fun watching it.
Don't forget the defence though!

 

[Part Time James]

At the press conference just now Wharton was asked about what is different tactically between Sage and Glasner.
He said the players are now required to press higher and more aggressively, including for opposition goal kicks.

As others have pointed out in these forums, there is a risk in doing this as only the best teams can usually play with this way.

In Glasner's first season for the last half dozen games we did this very successfully but had Eze Olise and Mateta on fire as front 3 ,Wharton and Hughes forming a very effective partnership and Munoz playing with a scary intensity.
We boxed teams in and seemingly scored at will.

It remains to be seen if we can get results with a high pressing style, but it could be fun watching it.
Don't forget the defence though!

I feel like the plan might be to try to win 4-3 every week...with three centre backs...

 

[Canterbury Palace]

I would say one of two things need to happen. Either we find a back three combination that works well, or we need an extra man in midfield to alleviate some of the pressure on them.

Can't believe I'm saying this but the answer to both could, in the short term, be Lerma.

As a defensive midfielder he is probably our only option at the moment. Obviously Doucoure would be much more preferable but still have doubts he'll play much of a part this season. Sacrificing a forward or a CB and having Lerma sit in front of the defence would shut off some of the pressure.

Alternatively, if it's experience and leadership we're missing at the moment, maybe we could try him, Canvot and Tomiyasu/Disasi as a trio and see if their relative qualities could form something a bit more solid.

As hopeless as our defence have been, I think Sage's point about how much pressure they're constantly under due to the midfield is valid, though it is also him setting up the team.

 

[park the bus]

Why specifically mid-October?

Lech Poznan, Leeds, Forest, Lyon, and then on the 18th Brighton. By then we will know if there has been any improvement and if not I suspect a poor result against Brighton will be the catalyst.
I would prefer that Sage gets it right and stays in the post, but if we pick up only a couple of points (or none!) from these league encounters then that is certified relegation form and Parish doesn't usually mess about when his investment is threatened.

 

[Canterbury Palace]

f*** it, I think we should try this and just abandon the wide forwards if Sarr is going to be a t***. Let Mitchell and Khalaili bomb forward and fire endless crosses into the two big men, hopefully causing havoc.

 

[BromleyMonkey]

f*** it, I think we should try this and just abandon the wide forwards if Sarr is going to be a t***. Let Mitchell and Khalaili bomb forward and fire endless crosses into the two big men, hopefully causing havoc.

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When can you start Canterbury? 👍🤣

Anyone but Dyche 🤣