"Horses For Courses"

[MrRobbo]

I could just as easily say your POV is comparing apples and oranges from my perspective.

The bottom line is you seem to think that if anyone has a different opinion to you because they don't understand the intricacies of the game which are only available to you; a somewhat lofty an arrogant view I might add.
I don't purport to be an expert , but have a reasonable understanding of the game having been watching it closely for 60 years.
I know what works and doesn't work.

I know what I observe with my own eyes.

I support the points which I make and don't resort to ' if this happened...if that happened....if that hadn't happened...it's all great....he scored a great disallowed goal, he almost hit the post.'

This is often the basis of points that you make as if cloaking everything in positivity makes a blind difference to the near 3 goals per game we're conceding .

You need'nt try and sell these spurious arguments to me about how we should have beaten Everton and Ipswich.
The fact is we didn't , and perhaps you need to prepare your reasons as to why we didn't beat Leeds for the various reasons that only you are privileged to see.

Thats a long post to say nothing....

To parafrase

You original point was that Kamada and Pino's output was nothing.

All I ever ask is for ppl to be openminded. I'm merely saying, this season they have reasonable output. Enough to give us hope. Dont judge the attacking output under Glassner, it wasnt designed to maximise the attacking output.

 

[EagleEddie]

There’s plenty of discussion and opinion about rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, but personally, I think the issues run far deeper than formations. That said, I don’t have the answers or know what the solution is.

 

[PatrickA]

Thats a long post to say nothing....

To parafrase

You original point was that Kamada and Pino's output was nothing.

All I ever ask is for ppl to be openminded. I'm merely saying, this season they have reasonable output. Enough to give us hope. Dont judge the attacking output under Glassner, it wasnt designed to maximise the attacking output.

In your world of if's, but's and maybe's, facts seem of little interest to you, but here we go.
In their 84 games between them Pino and Kamada have contributed the princely sum of 2 goals and 6 assists.

Yes, you will no doubt retort ( here comes the 'but') , but Kamada has spent most of his time as a disciplined midfielder and ( here's the 'maybe'), maybe Sage's new attacking system will lead to a dramatic uptick in those numbers.

They are both good players, but not in front 3 roles taking the game to the opposition and driving into the hearts of opposing defences.

I don't agree with your theories on them, but that won't surprise you.
It's a game of opinions

 

[MrRobbo]

In your world of if's, but's and maybe's, facts seem of little interest to you, but here we go.
In their 84 games between them Pino and Kamada have contributed the princely sum of 2 goals and 6 assists.

Yes, you will no doubt retort ( here comes the 'but') , but Kamada has spent most of his time as a disciplined midfielder and ( here's the 'maybe'), maybe Sage's new attacking system will lead to a dramatic uptick in those numbers.

They are both good players, but not in front 3 roles taking the game to the opposition and driving into the hearts of opposing defences.

I don't agree with your theories on them, but that won't surprise you.
It's a game of opinions

You are wring there, facts are very important to me.

e.g. Kamada had 17 shots in the league last season. Less than JP, Sarr, Warton, Munoz, Mitchel, Lacroix. So its not a surprise he didnt score or look like scoring. In Galsners system his role wasn't to get himself into those attacking positons.

Already this season he has a goal and 3 assists. That isn't maybe's. Last season he had 1 goal and 5 assists. You are deciding to ignore the stats of this seaason and pass them off as buts and maybes.

All I'm saying is both theoretically and statistically he is demonstration that he CAN have a better output in a different system.

Is it enough. We dont know yet. But whats clear, at least to me is that you cant look at the output under one way of playing and make the decision that he

 

[eritheagle]

Our back 3 is very weak, and to have 2 of the 3 being loanees is poor decision making from Sage. Richards should be our senior CB but he looks very vulnerable without decent players either side of him.

Far cry from the Lacroix and Guehi days. Urgent investment is needed in a decent play balling centre back with leadership qualities in Jan.

That one from Bruges should be joining as he’s foot will be healed by then.

 

[JRW2]

There’s plenty of discussion and opinion about rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, but personally, I think the issues run far deeper than formations. That said, I don’t have the answers or know what the solution is.

.....or even what the problem is, by the sound of it. Like the rest of us.

 

[Runningman]

What will happen is Sage will stick rigidly to his formation, in the Premier league we will lose game after game until Sage is put out of his misery.

Lanzo. With due respect, would be more beneficial if you were put out of your misery ! lol

 

[Willo]

There’s plenty of discussion and opinion about rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, but personally, I think the issues run far deeper than formations. That said, I don’t have the answers or know what the solution is.

As one supporter opined to me on Saturday "Multi-layered issues".

 

[Faz]

Agree with the theory, but the reality is that a large swathe of players will be away on international duty again.
It will be a case of working with Hughes and the kids again during the break.

So bloody true - Hughes & the kids sounds hilarious

Only if he could somehow stop the defence from travelling & get them working together

 

[cryrst]

There’s plenty of discussion and opinion about rearranging the chairs on the Titanic, but personally, I think the issues run far deeper than formations. That said, I don’t have the answers or know what the solution is.

The solution is accept where we are, what we have and that one day we will go down. Been a good journey with trophies. If it brings relegation so be it, I’m complete 👍COYP

 

[MrRobbo]

So bloody true - Hughes & the kids sounds hilarious

Only if he could somehow stop the defence from travelling & get them working together

All of the big clubs stop their players going when it suits them. Arsenal players seamed to pull out regularly last season.

This would certainly be a time to do the same

 

[Gary St.Andrews]

If someone said to you “ we are going to sell our best 3 defenders inside 8 months “ you would have laughed them out of the door. But that’s what we have done, so Sage has got to figure this one out!

We have got option at CB and the sooner we get that defence more organised the better. It’s not helping that Henderson is out because his direction and positioning is way better than Benitez. We are not getting any breaks at the moment!

 

[park the bus]

If someone said to you “ we are going to sell our best 3 defenders inside 8 months “ you would have laughed them out of the door. But that’s what we have done, so Sage has got to figure this one out!

We have got option at CB and the sooner we get that defence more organised the better. It’s not helping that Henderson is out because his direction and positioning is way better than Benitez. We are not getting any breaks at the moment!

It just goes to show how piss poor Parish & Co's succession planning for the season ahead has been. Even more so when one considers that Glasner gave then ample warning that he was off. On top of that consider the out of character near £90m panic spend on two players. The picture that presents itself is one of boardroom incompetence.

 

[JHB]

It just goes to show how piss poor Parish & Co's succession planning for the season ahead has been. Even more so when one considers that Glasner gave then ample warning that he was off. On top of that consider the out of character near £90m panic spend on two players. The picture that presents itself is one of boardroom incompetence.

Lots of people on here thought our transfer window had been great. I looked at it and thought it left us with a significantly weaker first eleven that would struggle.

We sold our best centre back and replaced him with a loan of a player with a mixed record, a loan of a promising but unproven teenager and a player who has hardly played for two years due to injury. We sold our one remaining defensive leader in Munoz and replaced him with an unproven 21 year old who has struggled so far defensively.

We signed a load of wide players we didn’t need and three of whom the manger already appears to have written off.

The only successes so far have been Chilwell as a back up left wing back and Timber in midfield. Even with Timber though the partnership with Wharton isn’t working.

 

[Poshgit]

Yes or no answers
Having seen all the new signings in action now do you think any manager could build them into a reasonably effective premier league team ?

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

YES, McNeil, is a very good crosser, Left footed, Pino is similar on the right, JSL, is great in the air, so crossing is probably a good start. we do not have any two midfielders good enough as a pair, so we need to play three, Kamada has stamina, Wharton has skill and Timber has strength, so you can play 4-5-1, it dosent matter if you are Pep, Mourinho, Dyche, Pardew or Sage, that is what we have and the best way to play a balanced team, the easy change if needed during the game is switch Wharton for Nketiah or another forward, that is the fact of the matter, like it or not.

 

[park the bus]

Yes or no answers
Having seen all the new signings in action now do you think any manager could build them into a reasonably effective premier league team ?

Currently there's not an effective team in there. Most of these new players are padding, a smoke and mirrors con trick by Parish & Co to make it look like they did some good business. Half of them won't get any proper game time. Notable exceptions are Chilwell and Timber.
The disillusionment and wanting away of certain players suggests something is not quite right at a core level. Add in the sale of key elements of the side and inadequate replacements and any manager will have his work cut out, as Sage is discovering.
Let's remind ourselves about Franca, who has been around since the days of Roy, still here, never gets a game, put out on loan yet again. Shambles.
Being positive it will take a lot of hard work to knock this squad into shape by any manager. Some will enjoy the challenge. It is possible. Yes, why not.

 

[JHB]

Yes or no answers
Having seen all the new signings in action now do you think any manager could build them into a reasonably effective premier league team ?

Yes. Do we think Ipswich or Hull have better players than us?

I don’t think this is an eleven that is going to be top half and expect it to struggle a bit but not the defensive shambles it has been.

What I wouldn’t expect the manager to do is try and play a high press, abandon defensive solidity and try and pass out from the back. That has been notoriously hard to do with great players let alone the ones we have.

A manager who prioritised a solid shape, not conceding and using width to feed a striker who is good in the air would get results

 

[NEILLO]

Lots of people on here thought our transfer window had been great. I looked at it and thought it left us with a significantly weaker first eleven that would struggle.

We sold our best centre back and replaced him with a loan of a player with a mixed record, a loan of a promising but unproven teenager and a player who has hardly played for two years due to injury. We sold our one remaining defensive leader in Munoz and replaced him with an unproven 21 year old who has struggled so far defensively.

We signed a load of wide players we didn’t need and three of whom the manger already appears to have written off.

The only successes so far have been Chilwell as a back up left wing back and Timber in midfield. Even with Timber though the partnership with Wharton isn’t working.

There were a fair few, myself included, that reached that conclusion.

I feel a bit sorry for Pierre Sage. Coming into a club that has just enjoyed the most successful period in it's history. But as I referred to in another thread, the combination of a write-off of a pre season, a transfer window that looked ' busy ' without necessarily resolving the positional issues we have, injuries and non-availability of key players , is hardly setting him up for success.

Talk of him changing his tactical approach might make for a lively online debate, but the fact is that Sage was hired on the back of that approach. And that's the only constant that he has to hang onto at the moment. So I think it's unlikely that he's going to change it.

I'm not a fan of digging players out in public, justified or not. To me it's the equivalent of dishing out a bollocking to someone in the office in front of their colleagues. Best done behind closed doors. So that is my main criticism of Sage to date.

I'm not expecting much joy in terms of results from the next run of games.

What Sage needs is time, but that's the commodity that can't be bought. And it remains to be seen if Parish gives him that.

 

[Lanzo-Ad]

Yes. Do we think Ipswich or Hull have better players than us?

I don’t think this is an eleven that is going to be top half and expect it to struggle a bit but not the defensive shambles it has been.

What I wouldn’t expect the manager to do is try and play a high press, abandon defensive solidity and try and pass out from the back. That has been notoriously hard to do with great players let alone the ones we have.

A manager who prioritised a solid shape, not conceding and using width to feed a striker who is good in the air would get results

But isn't that obvious to everybody, its not what i want, its what is needed.