doombear
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- Too far from Selhurst Park
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England
Of course that's the answer - an extra player for us in a 533 or 353 🙂
"Horses For Courses"
- Topic starter doombear
- Start date
Part Time James
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- Country
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England
Definitely ready for a flat back four. If three centre backs are going to leak goals (due to inexperience, inability or a lack of time together) then it's time to try to dominate the midfield instead. I'd even be happy with a 4-5-1 that becomes a 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 in attack/possession (basically what you're suggesting really).
Have five midfielders break up play and force the turnover of the ball then launch your wingers forwards while your centre forward concentrates on being in the right place.
Have five midfielders break up play and force the turnover of the ball then launch your wingers forwards while your centre forward concentrates on being in the right place.
Kamada -
68 Premier League games/ 0 goals/4 assists
Pino
38 Premier League games/0 goals/ 2 assists
Both good players, but do they carry enough threat to perform the number 10 roles in the system employed with their records on goals and assists?
There are mitigating circumstances with the absence of Sarr, the fact that Osorio is not deemed ready, the rawness of Gozo, and the fact that Guessand is out of favour.
Nonetheless, most on here could see that Kamada is far more effective in a midfield role and that he didn't work as a number 10 under Glasner.
If it's accepted Kamada is better suited to a central midfield role where he is more fully involved in the gane, and that Wharton and Timber should also play in central midfield, something has to give.
Either the system needs to change, one of them is left out, or Kamada continues to be shoehorned into an unsuitable role where he can do a job but not contribute the goals and assists expected from a number 10.
68 Premier League games/ 0 goals/4 assists
Pino
38 Premier League games/0 goals/ 2 assists
Both good players, but do they carry enough threat to perform the number 10 roles in the system employed with their records on goals and assists?
There are mitigating circumstances with the absence of Sarr, the fact that Osorio is not deemed ready, the rawness of Gozo, and the fact that Guessand is out of favour.
Nonetheless, most on here could see that Kamada is far more effective in a midfield role and that he didn't work as a number 10 under Glasner.
If it's accepted Kamada is better suited to a central midfield role where he is more fully involved in the gane, and that Wharton and Timber should also play in central midfield, something has to give.
Either the system needs to change, one of them is left out, or Kamada continues to be shoehorned into an unsuitable role where he can do a job but not contribute the goals and assists expected from a number 10.
Pino's stats aren't really defendable. He does miss chances. However, he's got a great eye for a pass and has shown it this season already.
Kamada has played those 68 games as a very disciplined DM. He has scored throughout his career and internationally, plus has scored 2 this season playing in a more progressive system. He can score.
However, IMO I dont think we can have have both Pino and Kamada as the 10's. Need some pace in the front line.
Hopefully Sarr can sort his life out. Sarr and Pino then feel more balanced. And then we have Kamada, Timber and Wharton rotating for the 2 CM positions.
Normandie Eagle
Member
- Country
France
Didn't Kamada have both assists on Saturday in his number 10 role?
Kamada hasn't played all 68 games as as a disciplined DM.
He's played the majority there, but Glasner often used him in a number 10 role in essentially a front 3.
It was a bugbear of many on here how Kamada and Devenny were shoehorned into unsuitable no 10 roles, which clearly didn't work.
Hughes and Wharton were often used as the midfield pairing until Kamada was eventually preferred to Hughes.
Kamada and Wharton should play in midfield, and if Saturday's performance is anything to go by, they should be joined by Timber.
There's a good balance of work rate, intelligence and passing in there with those three.
Leave the number 10 positions for those who can contribute goals and assists.
The year we won the FA Cup & Comm Shield we started that season in a much worse situation than of current
Yes our defense needs to improve. They need to get to know each others strengths & weaknesses, yet also need to get the format worked.
Time - I feel a lot of people believe we could have beat Everton & Ipswich , yes we should have but we didn’t put our chances away.
That’s the disappointing thing we never take our chances enough & for that we will get punished.
Yet I think we look promising to finish top half this season.
Yes our defense needs to improve. They need to get to know each others strengths & weaknesses, yet also need to get the format worked.
Time - I feel a lot of people believe we could have beat Everton & Ipswich , yes we should have but we didn’t put our chances away.
That’s the disappointing thing we never take our chances enough & for that we will get punished.
Yet I think we look promising to finish top half this season.
I admire the optimism but I would love to know what the predictions of a top half finish are based on?
How anyone can have seen our games so far and think we are anything other than a disorganised mess is beyond me. The defence doesn’t just need work it is completely dysfunctional. We are shipping almost 3 goals a game. Fair enough against Man City but against the mighty attacking prowess of Everton, Ipswich and Fulham.
I think people have been swayed by seeing us charge up the pitch playing kick and giggle football and thinking somehow that equates to winning play. Yes it scores goals but if you let in so many you lose and the objective is to win. People also seem to think that if we would just sort out the defense and keep scoring lots we will be ok. What they seem to miss is that sorting out the defense will mean less kamikaze attacking football and fewer goals. You can’t simultaneously have 6 players up the pitch and 7 behind the ball.
Yes under Glasner the football was at times tedious and we went on long winless runs but the defense was never this shambolic.
park the bus
Member
- Country
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England
It's certainly looking that way. But then again maybe, just maybe, the break will give him an opportunity to study closely the obviously defensive frailties and make amends.
Don't push both wingbacks on at the same time. Stick in a genuine defensive midfielder. Ditch the 3 centre half malarkey and go to a straight back 4. Find an answer to why the opposition are upon the defence with almost no resistance from other areas of the pitch. Accept that what is on display currently doesn't work. Aim for a clean sheet, it will bring some confidence back to a set of players who are now accustomed to seeing the ball in the back of their net. Lot's of variables, but one thing is for certain, stick with the current formation and tactics and watch the defeats roll in.
Agree with the theory, but the reality is that a large swathe of players will be away on international duty again.
It will be a case of working with Hughes and the kids again during the break.
park the bus
Member
- Country
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England
October is a key month for Sage and the team, come through it with some decent results and we should be ok. If not I think Parish will consider a change. .
I watched Pino score against Wolves int he prem so your stats are wrong.
Should have been 2 goals and 2 assists in 38 games.
Personally I don't think that's an adequate contribution from a player in front 3, particularly if you don't have goals from midfield either; you of course may see it differently.
I dont how hard it is to understand how much of a difference a different role makes?
Under Sage he has 3 assists and a goal ( and a great disallowed one) in 5 games.
Last seasons we scored the 3rd least goals in the league. The team was set up to be tight and not give much away. Daiichi has less shots last season than Mitchel and Lacroix.
A disallowed goal is as much use as wet paper bag.
The fact that I disagree with you is not down to my 'failure to understand. '
I have an opinion which differs from yours - it is after all a discussion forum.
You mention that previously we were set up not to give much away at the back.
Personally I would take that right now.
It might be, but it helps to add some colour to the story that there is positive output from Pino and Kamada in this system.
(To be fair you didn't understand goal difference vs goals conceded last week.....)
We dont need to agree. But your POV is comparing apples to oranges.
Judging a CM players attacking output in a Glasner team but then ignoring the hugely increased output in a Sage set up jsut feels a bit odd.
To me it only goes to highlight how restrictive the system last year was. And also how thinking that a formation change is the most important thing is nonsense.
Norbury Old Git
Member
- Location
- London
- Country
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England
I don see why contributors think Ahanor should be a regular in central defence. He was ok against Championship Middlesbrough but just ok. He had a few good touches against Ipswich but if you look at the second and third goals he was lost in ‘no man’s land’ and nowhere near any of the forwards. He is very young and spent a lot of last season on the bench being used carefully by the manager. At the moment we need experience not youth especially as this is only for Chelsea’s benefit.
I could just as easily say your POV is comparing apples and oranges from my perspective.
The bottom line is you seem to think that if anyone has a different opinion to you because they don't understand the intricacies of the game which are only available to you; a somewhat lofty an arrogant view I might add.
I don't purport to be an expert , but have a reasonable understanding of the game having been watching it closely for 60 years.
I know what works and doesn't work.
I know what I observe with my own eyes.
I support the points which I make and don't resort to ' if this happened...if that happened....if that hadn't happened...it's all great....he scored a great disallowed goal, he almost hit the post.'
This is often the basis of points that you make as if cloaking everything in positivity makes a blind difference to the near 3 goals per game we're conceding .
You need'nt try and sell these spurious arguments to me about how we should have beaten Everton and Ipswich.
The fact is we didn't , and perhaps you need to prepare your reasons as to why we didn't beat Leeds for the various reasons that only you are privileged to see.