Fulham vs. Crystal Palace match thread

MarkA333 said:
For each of the two goals, our wingbacks were caught way upfield. Canvot played a careless pass for the first and that led to a goal and Richards got done for pace by on the right with Khalaili way upfield. Yes they were both mistakes bit our wingbacks were way upfield. So some of this is Sage’s fault. If we are going to play such an aggressive pressing style, we need very quick and dependable centre backs. I would drop Richards and Canvot for now and play Tomiyasu, Disasi and Chilwell as the three centrebacks. Mitchell scored our first two goals as the furthest forward and Chilwell and Khalaili were the furthest forward for the third goal. So it bears dividends but then there has to be cover. It’s a very adventurous style of football, that’s for sure!
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Standard rule of wingbacks is once gone past the winger , the winger drops back to cover and doesn't get in the way , yes before you say it we don't have wingers but we have wide players , it goes with the system
 
Come October I think we'll see a different back 3.

Admittedly it's early days, but the balance doesn't look right at present.

The new player from Atalanta would apparently provide much needed pace, and Tomiyasu is a good defensive reader of the game and senses danger in the penalty area (if he can stay fit).

When wing backs push as high as ours do, it's necessary to have pace to deal with counter attacks as well as defenders capable of 1 on 1 defending.
Guehi and Lacroix excelled at this.
If the current bunch can't do this, we may need to play a defensive midfielder to protect them.
 
MarkA333 said:
For each of the two goals, our wingbacks were caught way upfield. Canvot played a careless pass for the first and that led to a goal and Richards got done for pace by on the right with Khalaili way upfield. Yes they were both mistakes bit our wingbacks were way upfield. So some of this is Sage’s fault. If we are going to play such an aggressive pressing style, we need very quick and dependable centre backs. I would drop Richards and Canvot for now and play Tomiyasu, Disasi and Chilwell as the three centrebacks. Mitchell scored our first two goals as the furthest forward and Chilwell and Khalaili were the furthest forward for the third goal. So it bears dividends but then there has to be cover. It’s a very adventurous style of football, that’s for sure!
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This is a huge factor in defensive shakiness. For most centre backs there is a world of difference between defending deep, narrow and compact on one hand, and defending high, wide, and with space around you on the other. Very few can get away with the latter.

I've seen teams try what you describe, essentially one centre back and two full backs, but can't recall it ever working in the modern era. Whilst a natural full back might be more comfortable in wide areas than a centre back, they will still struggle if the back three are asked to cover the width of the pitch, as they can't take up a decent starting position against the opposition winger.

That's what did for Richards in the first half when got beaten so easily down our right. He had to go from a central position out to the wing and was still arriving after the Fulham boy had been able to receive the ball in space and turn.

I'm sure Sage has solutions in his mind. Most coaches would focus on Richards getting over to the right back spot far earlier during our attack, but that needs us not to give the ball away during build up, and to press in such a manner that the opposition gets 'trapped' on that side of the pitch when possession is turned over. All very good in theory but, as you say, a risky approach in reality.

Ultimately this is a league in which the standard of the average team is far higher than in any other. Hence, whilst a bold, risky strategy might pay dividends over the course of the season in France, it could easily be too risky in England.

I'd be surprised if Palace end up playing an aggressive pressing game successfully, whichever back three Sage settles on.
 
Certainly our back 3 requires more support and need to improve. It would help if we didn’t give the ball away so easily which happened consistently yesterday throughout the team. We were lucky that Fulham didn’t capitalise other than the 2 goals they scored and of course MOM Henderson. Main culprits yesterday for me was Wharton and Pino but the others also passed what should have been easy passes to the opposition. Can’t rule out not making those mistakes but we need to do it less often if we are going to press teams the way Sage is setting us up? Early days but I’m expecting more defeats if we don’t improve. We got lucky yesterday as it was Fulham.
 
I also like the way Sage is handling Sarr. We’re all frustrated with him and his idiot agent but we need the likes of Sage to sensitively bring him back into the fold and that’s exactly what he’s doing.
 
Hopefully the experience of Tomiyasu and Chilwell will help. Also the Asst manager Jamal Alioui was a full back so along with Paddy McCarthy they should be able to come up with some solutions.
 
MarkA333 said:
For each of the two goals, our wingbacks were caught way upfield. Canvot played a careless pass for the first and that led to a goal and Richards got done for pace by on the right with Khalaili way upfield. Yes they were both mistakes bit our wingbacks were way upfield. So some of this is Sage’s fault. If we are going to play such an aggressive pressing style, we need very quick and dependable centre backs. I would drop Richards and Canvot for now and play Tomiyasu, Disasi and Chilwell as the three centrebacks. Mitchell scored our first two goals as the furthest forward and Chilwell and Khalaili were the furthest forward for the third goal. So it bears dividends but then there has to be cover. It’s a very adventurous style of football, that’s for sure!
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Not having that. There are lots of inderviual mistakes in there.

For the first Canvot needs to know when to, and when not to play that pass. The risk when as you said everyone is pushed up is too much. The ball should have been pumped up field and there wouldn't have been an issue. IMO Timber also doesn't work hard enough to get back early.

2nd Kalaili deffo need to have a look in the mirror, pushed hard to press, ball got passed on and his man went bombing on whilst he watched.


The positive for me, is that there are lots of individual things that you can easily seeing getting better with some coaching. e.g. the points above, helping Canvot when to play that sort of ball and when the risk is too high.
 
Unfortunately Canvot, at present plays at least one goal giving ball each game. And Richards is being exposed by this high press game because he is not fast enough. It was embarrassing how badly he got beaten on the right wing for their second goal. Look… we won. End of. For now.
 
I wouldn’t get too critical at this stage. Very few of the senior players had a proper pre-season due to the World Cup or having been recently signed from teams around Europe. Glasner had the same problems when he arrived until he took the squad to Spain for a week. Unfortunately for Sage he is not going to have much of an opportunity to take the whole squad away even during the international break as many of our squad will be called up. Until then performances will be a bit rocky.
 
We look like a side transitioning from a low block hit on the break side to a high press team. The wingbacks have made the transition and our front three seem on board to a degree, but our midfield haven’t quite found their role and our back three are suffering from getting to know each other and working out how to defend with a high line. Hopefully it’ll improve in time but Richards needs to work out when to press because he lacks pace on the turn when his man beats him.
 
Palacesince64 said:
We look like a side transitioning from a low block hit on the break side to a high press team. The wingbacks have made the transition and our front three seem on board to a degree, but our midfield haven’t quite found their role and our back three are suffering from getting to know each other and working out how to defend with a high line. Hopefully it’ll improve in time but Richards needs to work out when to press because he lacks pace on the turn when his man beats him.
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He certainly did yesterday. When he got beaten out wide he looked like Andersen puffing after Eddie N.
 
MrRobbo said:
Not having that. There are lots of inderviual mistakes in there.

For the first Canvot needs to know when to, and when not to play that pass. The risk when as you said everyone is pushed up is too much. The ball should have been pumped up field and there wouldn't have been an issue. IMO Timber also doesn't work hard enough to get back early.

2nd Kalaili deffo need to have a look in the mirror, pushed hard to press, ball got passed on and his man went bombing on whilst he watched.


The positive for me, is that there are lots of individual things that you can easily seeing getting better with some coaching. e.g. the points above, helping Canvot when to play that sort of ball and when the risk is too high.
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The first goal was awful play as a team. Terrible pass from Canvot then loose marking, Wharton should have cleared the cut back but made a half hearted effort and then we were no where tight enough to King letting him shoot
 
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