UK Police and Judiciary out of control?

Wrong thread ,wrong everything. I didn't learn that good English at school. The West is finished. I come from a place that would tom Hanks feel out of place with him and his ball. Surrounded by should I say wasps!?. If you have read this post this far. Listen to a song called 500 miles. I'm a Derry Eagle 😊😊😊
 
McAhuna said:
Just semantics now. You might not describe 'carrying out raids' as serious public disorder, but my point still applies. It has to be seriously kicking off in some way, however you describe it. They can't justify balaclavas for strolling down the High Street on a dull Tuesday afternoon, unless a serious threat is going down. Clearly that is open to interpretation (and abuse) - my point was that wearing them at a peaceful Selhurst Park at full time was a misinterpretation and borderline abuse of the guidelines.

Seriously, saying making their heads 'more comfortable' is a public order issue is laughable. Maybe it makes sense in your police handbook, but maybe its statements like this which is the reason no-one trusts the police any more?

You might have worn it for 30 years. I hope your head was very comfortable as a result. But as we all know, practices being long established doesn't make them correct - in any profession.
* The staff nurse administering thalidomide because it had been done hundreds of times before.
* The Council building Inspector signing off Grenfell cladding because it had already been installed on dozens of other tower blocks.
* The Post Office punishing another Postmaster because the accounting software system has flagged them up under the guidelines.

Some extreme examples perhaps, but established habits count for nothing and still need regular checks and questions.
Click to expand...

It’s not semantics.

1) The head over (balaclava) is flame retardant and is part of the standard Level 2 Public Order kit issued to ALL Level 1 (TSG) and Level 2 police officers as part of the Home office guidance.

2) It doesn’t have to be ‘kicking off’ for officers to be deployed in Level 2 public order kit. Dress code is part of the Op order. It is also part of the SOP that if circumstances change / dictate it can be worn spontaneously, even if at the start of the tour of duty, normal beat duty uniform was being worn.

It is part of the risk assessment undertaken for each deployment. If an officer was not wearing their head over when deployed in Level 2 public order kit they would not be covered by the Federation Insurance and may be in breach of Health and Safety at work legislation. If they were injured and not wearing their full issued kit they would have no recourse to compensation and may even find themselves subject to discipline procedures.

In reality it is accepted practice for it to be personal choice if an officer wears their head over ALL the time when wearing their NATO helmet, unless they are training at MPSTC (*Gravesend) or unless a Supervisor or Cadre trained officer has instructed it has to be worn at all times during deployment.

There was no misinterpretation and certainty NO borderline abuse of the guidelines. We can go at this Ad infinitum if you like and whilst we do, members can decide whether they’re going to take the word of a former Public Order officer with over 30 years of experience and who up until last year was involved in the review of the Met’s Public Order Manual…or an armchair expert who has never been a Level 2 police officer, never worn a NATO helmet and never worked on a public order deployment.
 
Phil’s Barber said:
It’s not semantics.

1) The head over (balaclava) is flame retardant and is part of the standard Level 2 Public Order kit issued to ALL Level 1 (TSG) and Level 2 police officers as part of the Home office guidance.

2) It doesn’t have to be ‘kicking off’ for officers to be deployed in Level 2 public order kit. Dress code is part of the Op order. It is also part of the SOP that if circumstances change / dictate it can be worn spontaneously, even if at the start of the tour of duty, normal beat duty uniform was being worn.

It is part of the risk assessment undertaken for each deployment. If an officer was not wearing their head over when deployed in Level 2 public order kit they would not be covered by the Federation Insurance and may be in breach of Health and Safety at work legislation. If they were injured and not wearing their full issued kit they would have no recourse to compensation and may even find themselves subject to discipline procedures.

In reality it is accepted practice for it to be personal choice if an officer wears their head over ALL the time when wearing their NATO helmet, unless they are training at MPSTC (*Gravesend) or unless a Supervisor or Cadre trained officer has instructed it has to be worn at all times during deployment.

There was no misinterpretation and certainty NO borderline abuse of the guidelines. We can go at this Ad infinitum if you like and whilst we do, members can decide whether they’re going to take the word of a former Public Order officer with over 30 years of experience and who up until last year was involved in the review of the Met’s Public Order Manual…or an armchair expert who has never been a Level 2 police officer, never worn a NATO helmet and never worked on a public order deployment.
Click to expand...

Of course, Members could simply go to any search engine or AI tool and ask
"When can UK police wear balaclavas?" or
"Can UK police wear balaclavas just to keep their heads comfortable?"

They could then ask themselves, "Can I trust the word of senior UK police officers?" ot "Has one of them just provided the perfect first-hand example of what the thread is talking about?"
 
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