Glasner is a Glazier....Our best manager ever ?

[PatrickA]

It is lessened through time tho, football was nothing like today back then, especially the English league, go back through the 80s, there were probably about 30 different clubs that finished in the top 5. Still a great achievement but finishing 3rd in the prem today would be a far greater achievement.

We just see it differently.

 

[JHB]

For clarification we 'finished ' third in the table under Coppell in the season in question, as opposed to just achieving this position at a random point during the season.
Nowhere have I suggested selling Eze, Olise and Guehi was the 'fault' of Glasner.
I'm sure he'd have loved to have kept them; just as Coppell would like to have retained the likes of Ian Wright.

To reiterate my central point, both Coppell and Glasner have done sterling jobs for the club and have significantly outperformed expectations .

I recall that what happened was that normally teams finishing third got into the UEFA Cup but English clubs were being phased back in after being banned from Europe following the Hysel Stadium tragedy. We implored the FA to argue for us to be given entry but they did a half arsed job and we didn’t. The suspicion at the time being had it been a ‘big’ club like they would have secured the place. I remember Coppell calling the FA “chocolate soldiers”

 

[PalazioVecchio]

It is lessened through time tho, football was nothing like today back then, especially the English league, go back through the 80s, there were probably about 30 different clubs that finished in the top 5. Still a great achievement but finishing 3rd in the prem today would be a far greater achievement.

more difficult, yes. But far less memorable. Almost anonymous after twenty or thirty years. And even after back-to-back relegations, bankruptsies and doom .....everybody remembers when Pompey won the FA cup.

 

[est1905]

For those too young to remember, Coppell took players from Greenwich, Crewe, Yeovil, Dulwich Hamlet and Plymouth , got them promoted to the Premier League equivalent ,took the team to 6 minutes from a Cup Final Win and into a Champions League position ( cruelly denied us).
Incredible achievements.
To those who say ‘ah but Glasner actually won the FA Cup’ it would be equally valid to retort that ‘ah but Coppell actually took us to third in the Premier League equivalent and in to a Champions League position.’
Bear in mind that Coppell also similarly took unfancied Reading into the top 8 of the Premier League equivalent.

From my standpoint they are both great managers and I’m going to sit on the fence and say they both deserve the accolade of our greatest ever manager.

The old first division was nowhere near the standard of today's Premiership. I would grudgingly accept that is mostly down to foreign internationals pouring in but in my opinion Coppell would die on his feet in todays Premiership whereas I believe Glasner would be successful in any era.

 

[pssguy]

For me Coppell Is my greatest palace manager. He gets my vote because of the circumstances in which he achieved success and the way in which he treated the club.

I think back to Bert Head and how well he did to get to the first division for the first time and then I remember our relegation and the massive (at the time) budget he was given that year.

Glasner of course is up there with his trophies. He started from a much stronger base of players and stability than the other 'great' candidates but I wonder what kind of team he will have left us with.

I'll never forgive Venables for the Clive Allen/Kenny Samson saga and Big Mal did great things but also got us relegated to League 3.

and League 2, I believe. IIRC, Bert head's final selection was when he selected Jim Cannon for the first time and we beat Chelsea 2-0 with Big Mal in attendance. We were in trouble but Allison's bounce produce 1 point in 6 games and the drop, Style over Substance with him

 

[Inquisitive Aquila]

I watched the preamble to Arsenal v Athletico Madrid, they had several former Arsenal players and one of them it might of been Tony Adams, said make yourselves legends by being the first to achieve something.
Glasner is the first manager to win the Fa Cup; Community Shield and a European trophy. To manager a 19 game unbeaton run and the first for a very very long time do the double over Brighton. So yes Glasner is our best and I never thought Coppell would be relegated to number 2.

 

[nickyf]

Hate to say this but we might not win a trophy for many years to come now unless a billionaire owner comes in and spends shed loads of money on players and builds us a massive state of the art Stadium, The top 6 clubs dominate the premier league and get all the favouritism from Eufa and have financial advantages over the smaller clubs in buying power of top players and wages offered to players from smaller clubs. What we have Achieved under Glasner has showed that it can be done but very difficult to sustain long term without the same resources of the bigger Clubs.

 

[RubinsCube]

The old first division was nowhere near the standard of today's Premiership. I would grudgingly accept that is mostly down to foreign internationals pouring in but in my opinion Coppell would die on his feet in todays Premiership whereas I believe Glasner would be successful in any era.

I agree with this and do not think it is a coincidence that SP became an expert of getting teams out of the Championship within three seasons. I even remember he himself looking back on his career and referring to the second tier as "his league".

I think this reflects what the old Division One used to be like: old fashioned, two up front, physical, more mixed styles, less patterned play. A workmanlike midfield and a good front two could take you far with the right coaching.

 

[nickyf]

The money dominates today's game , too many outside influences and snouts in the troughs , football was more for to the fans and working classes now it's all for the corporate elites.

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

Like most of us I expect, I can't stop thinking about our wonderful Wednesday in Liepzig.

I've unashamedly been a fan of Ollie since his arrival. There was something about his style and sense of humour that appealed to me. Although there are many similar posts on here I was going to write a piece about how he managed to overcome the difficulties of losing key players and his internal conflict about his perceived abandonment (we really don't know what went on behind the scenes). He overcame all that and still motivated our team to win a third piece of silverware in a year.

Anyway, I then found this on YouTube and, apologies if you've seen it, but thought it tells the story much better than I possibly could. Enjoy.

 

[davemadden5]

None of this should be read as an attempt to diminish what Oliver Glasner has achieved at Crystal Palace, because the truth is that his achievements deserve to be celebrated and remembered. The cup triumphs gave us memories that will last a lifetime, his teams at their best have played some of the most accomplished football seen at Selhurst Park at this level, and there is every reason why future generations will speak of him with the same affection and admiration that older supporters reserve for the great figures of the club's past.

But admiration should never come at the expense of perspective and context.

The more I think about this debate, the more I find myself returning to the same simple point. Oliver Glasner arrived at a football club that had already spent more than a decade establishing itself in the Premier League, a club with wealthy owners, modern facilities, sophisticated recruitment structures and financial resources that place it among the richest football institutions not just in England but anywhere in the world. That is not a criticism of Glasner; it is merely a statement of fact. He inherited a club that, while far from perfect, already possessed the foundations, stability and infrastructure that most managers can only dream of walking into.

Steve Coppell inherited something entirely different. He inherited a club that was still searching for its identity, still battling for relevance and credibility, and still operating with resources that left it at a significant disadvantage compared to many of its rivals. He was not simply tasked with improving results on a Saturday afternoon. He was effectively asked to help shape what Crystal Palace Football Club would become, and through a combination of judgement, leadership, coaching, recruitment and sheer force of personality he succeeded beyond anything that most supporters could reasonably have imagined at the time.

That, for me, is the fundamental distinction between the two men and the reason why the debate is not nearly as close as some would have us believe.

When people describe Glasner as Palace's greatest manager, they are usually focusing on what happened during his time at the club. When people describe Coppell as Palace's greatest manager, they are talking about something much larger. They are talking about the creation of a culture, the development of players, the transformation of expectations and the construction of a platform upon which future generations were able to build.

In many respects, the Crystal Palace that Glasner inherited was itself part of Coppell's legacy. That is why I can happily accept the argument that Oliver Glasner may well be the finest coach Crystal Palace have ever had. Modern football has become increasingly specialised, coaching standards have evolved dramatically and there is no question that Glasner brought qualities to the role that belong firmly to the modern era.

Yet if the discussion is about management rather than coaching, about building rather than inheriting, about transforming a football club rather than improving one that already exists, then I find it extraordinarily difficult to look beyond Steve Coppell.

Because when all the trophies have been celebrated, all the league tables forgotten and all the generations of supporters have had their say, history tends to ask a very simple question: who changed the club the most?

For me, and I suspect for many who witnessed both eras, the answer to that question will always be Steve Coppell.

Oliver Glasner inherited a Premier League football club and added a glorious chapter to its story. Steve Coppell built the foundations and in a different era great success.

Best manager: Coppell

Best coach: Glasner

 

[Phil’s Barber]

With respect…Anyone who thinks that Glasner is not our greatest manager ever needs to give their head a wobble.

In the space of just two seasons he has won THREE major trophies with us, including the biggest and most famous domestic cup competition in the world - the one trophy that we have craved more than any other. Not just that but these are our only major trophies ever and he’s won all of them in the space of just thirteen months!

 

[doombear]

With respect…Anyone who thinks that Glasner is not our greatest manager ever needs to give their head a wobble.

In the space of just two seasons he has won THREE major trophies with us, including the biggest and most famous domestic cup competition in the world - the one trophy that we have craved more than any other. Not just that but these are our only major trophies ever and he’s won all of them in the space of just thirteen months!

No they don't.

1. I found Dave's post gave an interesting perspective. I'm not saying I totally agree with it but it does give food for thought. For example, if after Glasner's departure, we return to type, we won't have moved forward. His tenure will have been a temporary blip, albeit one that we who've experienced it will treasure forever. However, if after having been shown by Glasner we are capable of winning trophies, we go on and win some more then Glasner will have achieved something more lasting, i.e., a change of mindset and self-belief.
2. I don't think your comment re head wobble and a statement regarding respect sit comfortably together.

 

[Mystic Smeg]

With respect…Anyone who thinks that Glasner is not our greatest manager ever needs to give their head a wobble.

In the space of just two seasons he has won THREE major trophies with us, including the biggest and most famous domestic cup competition in the world - the one trophy that we have craved more than any other. Not just that but these are our only major trophies ever and he’s won all of them in the space of just thirteen months!

All day long PB...not even debateable

 

[Palace Old Geezer]

None of this should be read as an attempt to diminish what Oliver Glasner has achieved at Crystal Palace, because the truth is that his achievements deserve to be celebrated and remembered. The cup triumphs gave us memories that will last a lifetime, his teams at their best have played some of the most accomplished football seen at Selhurst Park at this level, and there is every reason why future generations will speak of him with the same affection and admiration that older supporters reserve for the great figures of the club's past.

But admiration should never come at the expense of perspective and context.

The more I think about this debate, the more I find myself returning to the same simple point. Oliver Glasner arrived at a football club that had already spent more than a decade establishing itself in the Premier League, a club with wealthy owners, modern facilities, sophisticated recruitment structures and financial resources that place it among the richest football institutions not just in England but anywhere in the world. That is not a criticism of Glasner; it is merely a statement of fact. He inherited a club that, while far from perfect, already possessed the foundations, stability and infrastructure that most managers can only dream of walking into.

Steve Coppell inherited something entirely different. He inherited a club that was still searching for its identity, still battling for relevance and credibility, and still operating with resources that left it at a significant disadvantage compared to many of its rivals. He was not simply tasked with improving results on a Saturday afternoon. He was effectively asked to help shape what Crystal Palace Football Club would become, and through a combination of judgement, leadership, coaching, recruitment and sheer force of personality he succeeded beyond anything that most supporters could reasonably have imagined at the time.

That, for me, is the fundamental distinction between the two men and the reason why the debate is not nearly as close as some would have us believe.

When people describe Glasner as Palace's greatest manager, they are usually focusing on what happened during his time at the club. When people describe Coppell as Palace's greatest manager, they are talking about something much larger. They are talking about the creation of a culture, the development of players, the transformation of expectations and the construction of a platform upon which future generations were able to build.

In many respects, the Crystal Palace that Glasner inherited was itself part of Coppell's legacy. That is why I can happily accept the argument that Oliver Glasner may well be the finest coach Crystal Palace have ever had. Modern football has become increasingly specialised, coaching standards have evolved dramatically and there is no question that Glasner brought qualities to the role that belong firmly to the modern era.

Yet if the discussion is about management rather than coaching, about building rather than inheriting, about transforming a football club rather than improving one that already exists, then I find it extraordinarily difficult to look beyond Steve Coppell.

Because when all the trophies have been celebrated, all the league tables forgotten and all the generations of supporters have had their say, history tends to ask a very simple question: who changed the club the most?

For me, and I suspect for many who witnessed both eras, the answer to that question will always be Steve Coppell.

Oliver Glasner inherited a Premier League football club and added a glorious chapter to its story. Steve Coppell built the foundations and in a different era great success.

Best manager: Coppell

Best coach: Glasner

Nice piece Dave, and you put forward a coherent argument for both Steve and Ollie.

But having been following Palace since the late 50s I have seen many ups and downs. I was at Wembley when we missed out on Cup glory under Steve and now we have won three trophies, including the FA Cup under Ollie.

For this reason alone I rate Ollie's achievements and impact on our club greater than Steve's

 

[BromleyMonkey]

With respect…Anyone who thinks that Glasner is not our greatest manager ever needs to give their head a wobble.

In the space of just two seasons he has won THREE major trophies with us, including the biggest and most famous domestic cup competition in the world - the one trophy that we have craved more than any other. Not just that but these are our only major trophies ever and he’s won all of them in the space of just thirteen months!

But he’s had the benefit of great players already here when he joined us and premier league riches. Steve Coppell built a team that finished 3rd, THIRD!! and had us 7 minutes from winning the cup. Now I know Sir Steve didn’t actually win the cup or the league but he actually built that team made up of lower league and non-league players, any team that finishes third now will probably have cost £500 million or more,or £1 billion if its Man City or Chelsea, not £2.50

Glasner is our most successful manager, Sir Steve is our best ever manager

And please don’t give me that different era clap trap 😉

 

[rikz]

None of this should be read as an attempt to diminish what Oliver Glasner has achieved at Crystal Palace, because the truth is that his achievements deserve to be celebrated and remembered. The cup triumphs gave us memories that will last a lifetime, his teams at their best have played some of the most accomplished football seen at Selhurst Park at this level, and there is every reason why future generations will speak of him with the same affection and admiration that older supporters reserve for the great figures of the club's past.

But admiration should never come at the expense of perspective and context.

The more I think about this debate, the more I find myself returning to the same simple point. Oliver Glasner arrived at a football club that had already spent more than a decade establishing itself in the Premier League, a club with wealthy owners, modern facilities, sophisticated recruitment structures and financial resources that place it among the richest football institutions not just in England but anywhere in the world. That is not a criticism of Glasner; it is merely a statement of fact. He inherited a club that, while far from perfect, already possessed the foundations, stability and infrastructure that most managers can only dream of walking into.

Steve Coppell inherited something entirely different. He inherited a club that was still searching for its identity, still battling for relevance and credibility, and still operating with resources that left it at a significant disadvantage compared to many of its rivals. He was not simply tasked with improving results on a Saturday afternoon. He was effectively asked to help shape what Crystal Palace Football Club would become, and through a combination of judgement, leadership, coaching, recruitment and sheer force of personality he succeeded beyond anything that most supporters could reasonably have imagined at the time.

That, for me, is the fundamental distinction between the two men and the reason why the debate is not nearly as close as some would have us believe.

When people describe Glasner as Palace's greatest manager, they are usually focusing on what happened during his time at the club. When people describe Coppell as Palace's greatest manager, they are talking about something much larger. They are talking about the creation of a culture, the development of players, the transformation of expectations and the construction of a platform upon which future generations were able to build.

In many respects, the Crystal Palace that Glasner inherited was itself part of Coppell's legacy. That is why I can happily accept the argument that Oliver Glasner may well be the finest coach Crystal Palace have ever had. Modern football has become increasingly specialised, coaching standards have evolved dramatically and there is no question that Glasner brought qualities to the role that belong firmly to the modern era.

Yet if the discussion is about management rather than coaching, about building rather than inheriting, about transforming a football club rather than improving one that already exists, then I find it extraordinarily difficult to look beyond Steve Coppell.

Because when all the trophies have been celebrated, all the league tables forgotten and all the generations of supporters have had their say, history tends to ask a very simple question: who changed the club the most?

For me, and I suspect for many who witnessed both eras, the answer to that question will always be Steve Coppell.

Oliver Glasner inherited a Premier League football club and added a glorious chapter to its story. Steve Coppell built the foundations and in a different era great success.

Best manager: Coppell

Best coach: Glasner

This is technically correct as there's no such thing as football managers anymore, but you could use that as an argument against any modern day "manager", all clubs have sporting directors or directors of football who do everything else managers used to do away from coaching.

 

[Paul Salvage]

I recall that what happened was that normally teams finishing third got into the UEFA Cup but English clubs were being phased back in after being banned from Europe following the Hysel Stadium tragedy. We implored the FA to argue for us to be given entry but they did a half arsed job and we didn’t. The suspicion at the time being had it been a ‘big’ club like they would have secured the place. I remember Coppell calling the FA “chocolate soldiers”

I remember it slightly differently, but it was a long time ago.
Only the top 2 teams qualified for Europe along with the fa cup winner.
After the Hysel stadium tragedy all English clubs were banned from Europe (thanks Liverpool) for 5 years with Liverpool to be banned for a further 3 years.
But in 1991 when we were permitted to come back in, it was the year we finished 3rd. With Liverpool finishing 2nd. They should have gone in but due to their extended ban they were not eligible to play, so we were the team that should have qualified.

However the fa and UEFA decided that it would be better to have Liverpool in rather than Palace so they rescinded the extra 3 years of the Liverpool ban. Destroying our chance of playing in Europe and then the demise of that great team.

That is why so many older fans (myself included have a hatred for the bin dippers beyond just their fans being prat’s!)

That all said I might have remembered it wrong!

 

[Paul Salvage]

But he’s had the benefit of great players already here when he joined us and premier league riches. Steve Coppell built a team that finished 3rd, THIRD!! and had us 7 minutes from winning the cup. Now I know Sir Steve didn’t actually win the cup or the league but he actually built that team made up of lower league and non-league players, any team that finishes third now will probably have cost £500 million or more,or £1 billion if its Man City or Chelsea, not £2.50

Glasner is our most successful manager, Sir Steve is our best ever manager

And please don’t give me that different era clap trap 😉

I absolutely agree with everything you said. I would go even further in that Steve put the club before himself. OG cannot be accused of that.

There is no doubt OG is the most successful as the records don’t lie. However as Bromley Monkey said Steve is our greatest ever manager.
He took charge on 4 separate occasions, to help the club when in need. If you look at his record below he did more than just finishing 3rd and the cup final. He built a legacy that will never be forgotten.

So for us older fans maybe loyalty and servitude outranks success when it comes to who is greatest

• First Spell (1984–1993): His longest tenure. He took over at age 28, leading the Eagles to two promotions, the 1990 FA Cup Final, and a third-place top-flight finish.
• Second Spell (1995–1996): Returned initially in a director role before taking back the managerial reins for a brief stint.
• Third Spell (1997–1998): Came back as manager to earn yet another promotion to the top-flight.
• Fourth Spell (1999–2000): Took charge of the side for a final time as financial issues beset the club.

 

[Frickin Saweet]

None of this should be read as an attempt to diminish what Oliver Glasner has achieved at Crystal Palace, because the truth is that his achievements deserve to be celebrated and remembered. The cup triumphs gave us memories that will last a lifetime, his teams at their best have played some of the most accomplished football seen at Selhurst Park at this level, and there is every reason why future generations will speak of him with the same affection and admiration that older supporters reserve for the great figures of the club's past.

But admiration should never come at the expense of perspective and context.

The more I think about this debate, the more I find myself returning to the same simple point. Oliver Glasner arrived at a football club that had already spent more than a decade establishing itself in the Premier League, a club with wealthy owners, modern facilities, sophisticated recruitment structures and financial resources that place it among the richest football institutions not just in England but anywhere in the world. That is not a criticism of Glasner; it is merely a statement of fact. He inherited a club that, while far from perfect, already possessed the foundations, stability and infrastructure that most managers can only dream of walking into.

Steve Coppell inherited something entirely different. He inherited a club that was still searching for its identity, still battling for relevance and credibility, and still operating with resources that left it at a significant disadvantage compared to many of its rivals. He was not simply tasked with improving results on a Saturday afternoon. He was effectively asked to help shape what Crystal Palace Football Club would become, and through a combination of judgement, leadership, coaching, recruitment and sheer force of personality he succeeded beyond anything that most supporters could reasonably have imagined at the time.

That, for me, is the fundamental distinction between the two men and the reason why the debate is not nearly as close as some would have us believe.

When people describe Glasner as Palace's greatest manager, they are usually focusing on what happened during his time at the club. When people describe Coppell as Palace's greatest manager, they are talking about something much larger. They are talking about the creation of a culture, the development of players, the transformation of expectations and the construction of a platform upon which future generations were able to build.

In many respects, the Crystal Palace that Glasner inherited was itself part of Coppell's legacy. That is why I can happily accept the argument that Oliver Glasner may well be the finest coach Crystal Palace have ever had. Modern football has become increasingly specialised, coaching standards have evolved dramatically and there is no question that Glasner brought qualities to the role that belong firmly to the modern era.

Yet if the discussion is about management rather than coaching, about building rather than inheriting, about transforming a football club rather than improving one that already exists, then I find it extraordinarily difficult to look beyond Steve Coppell.

Because when all the trophies have been celebrated, all the league tables forgotten and all the generations of supporters have had their say, history tends to ask a very simple question: who changed the club the most?

For me, and I suspect for many who witnessed both eras, the answer to that question will always be Steve Coppell.

Oliver Glasner inherited a Premier League football club and added a glorious chapter to its story. Steve Coppell built the foundations and in a different era great success.

Best manager: Coppell

Best coach: Glasner

i kind of get what you're saying about Coppell creating a culture, however that culture wasn't an upward trajectory since his time in charge to now, and Glasner took over a team where the culture was survival, with no ambition to push for anything more. That rot had really set in under Hodgson. Listen to what the players say about Glasner. He challenged them to invest more in themselves and their jobs if they want to achieve something, he dared them to be more ambitious and believe they could do more. That's creating a culture of high performance, a winning mentality that ultimately saw us lift three trophies!

(I know this won't change your mind and I'm not trying to change it, I'm making the point on where Glasner started and the culture he created).