Spindle
Member
- Country
England
Would be better joining the Tories because they've been relegated
Reform
- Topic starter Stirlingsays
- Start date
Would be better joining the Tories because they've been relegated
orpingtoneagle
Member
- Location
- Orpington
- Country
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England
Tax avoidance paradise.....
So you now work say 40 hours a week. Your employer says ok how about we change your contract to 10 hours and I will make sure you get 30 hours a week overtime so you pay less tax.
So ok you are happy but then times get hard at the firm and before you know it you are now working just your contracted 10 hours....It's zero hours contract but possibly worse (and ok I know zero hours does work for some.)
Also we assume this will cause tax revenues to drop so needs costing. So far Reforms financial costings have been a bit sketchy (along with everyone else's)
Anyone would think there was a by election coming up.....
cryrst
Member
- Location
- The garden of England
- Country
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England
You may be looking a bit deep into this I’m afraid. If contracts are changed for less hours it only means those people will impact their own future credit line for short term gain. Won’t happen. This is about rewarding effort, not stitching anyone up. It fundamentally gives us more spending power as if you need OT to survive now you will still need it. Albeit it only means 20% extra for under 50 k earners in reality.
Mattconrov
Member
- Country
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England
A i
will sort it out
eaglesdare
Member
- Country
-
England
I'm pretty sure that the overtime would kick in above the 40 hour mark? And it wouldn't be above 10 hours?
orpingtoneagle
Member
- Location
- Orpington
- Country
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England
And are you just as sure that employers and indeed employees might not get contracts re written to take advantage of a situation where they pay less tax?
It has happened before with use of service or umbrella companies to reduce NIC.
This is an ill thought out policy as it stands and is click bait. Devil will be in any detail.As it stands it is an easy thing to say to grab a headline and hopefully some votes ahead of a by election.
eaglesdare
Member
- Country
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England
No I see your point. Could be an ill thought out policy and I have not read the finer details. I just imagine that it would be if you work anything over the 40 hours contract then it would be tax free overtime. It wouldn't work with contract of 10 hours with 30 hours over timed pay.
Just my thoughts anyway. But you are right employers can change the contracts if they wanted.
cryrst
Member
- Location
- The garden of England
- Country
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England
No employers can’t and won’t as it has no impact on them at all. They pay OT rate over contract hours anyway.
orpingtoneagle
Member
- Location
- Orpington
- Country
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England
Why not? Cut contractual hours give more workforce flexibility.
Look at the rise of zero hours in a lot of industries.
Any offer of a zero tax policy will be looked at by the tax profession and they will develop a product to sell to manipulate it.
As I say be devil will be in the detail.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Ouzo Dan
Member
- Location
- Behind you
- Country
Slovakia
Reform have gone from vote reform get Starmer out to vote reform keep Starmer in.
cryrst
Member
- Location
- The garden of England
- Country
-
England
It’s 20% extra for low band earners up to 50 k and 40 % on higher earners. Thats it no more or less. That really isn’t worth employers trying what you’re making presumptions about. Earners already get 80% or 60% of the OT already ! The reason that reform capped it at £75k is for train, tube and other high end state earners. If you’re on 75k already the OT is only because it’s there. Not that you need it most of the time I would think!
silvertop
Member
- Location
- Portishead
- Country
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England
Classic populist offering. Uncosted, unworkable but sufficiently shiny to attract their naive base.
cryrst
Member
- Location
- The garden of England
- Country
-
England
they said 5 billion. Approx. And they are looking at the ‘anxiety pip’ to offset some costs. That in itself should be done by labour now for savings.
I don't know enough to say if this is actually a good idea but the principle is.
We should be rewarding people for hard work not penalising them.
Reform should also look at VAT for sole contractors. I believe the threshold is 85k so come January many down tools as they don't want to breach that, not good for the economy. Perhaps if they lifted it to 150k?
orpingtoneagle
Member
- Location
- Orpington
- Country
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England
I think the opportunity to move staff onto zero or near zero contracts would be hugely attractive to a host of employers particularly in at risk industries lie hospitality and retail
Reform would actually make that easier with heir already stated policy to rip up a host of employment equality and health and safety legislation .
But I do see a huge risk here of an avoidance industry being built around this as around any tax policy and to suggest that it would be easy to take the money away from so e benefits is draught with the sort of difficulty that Labour had.
This would of course sit as part of a far wider small state policy which could cost less but as Reform councils are finding being put on charge of the purse strings ain't easy.
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
georgenorman
Member
- Country
-
England
Stirlingsays
Member
- Country
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England
Did you watch Lowe's video, because he answers a lot of what's in this video regarding Burham and this by-election? Frankly I'm not seeing the downside in terms of 2029.
I want to raise a couple of points in addition to what Lowe speaks to in terms of getting Burham elected.....I thought it would be self evident but obviously not. But I'll let Lowe speak for himself on that point.
I will address three points that Lawrence makes here.....normally someone I agree with.
One:
Farage kicked Lowe out.......Pretty stupid and narcissistic.....Farage has done this to many right wingers over the years. He can't expect to keep making enemies and expect everyone to kneel.
Farage tried to get Lowe imprisoned.....and was willing to lie to that aim.....quite disgraceful.
I remember Lowe asking several times not to be kicked out, asking for meetings and so on.
Farage literally created this mess.
Two:
Lawrence calls Restore 'Woke Right'......He doesn't say which Restore policies are 'woke right' and for the life of me I want to know this as well.
Let's forget the fact that many people who use the term 'Woke Right' would call both Lawrence and Farage/Reform 'woke right' and to start using the term themselves is not only self harming but nonsense.....Especially as Lawrence's views and Lowe's views literally have a paper's edge of difference.
Three:
He accuses Restore supporters of being insulting and all the rest of it....citing comments.
I have no problem calling those people idiots and not representative.....However, being someone who is somewhat in support of Lowe and Restore I find what he is saying there somewhat one eyed. When Restore started they were subject to ridicule and insults from some of Reform's biggest supporters....Lee Hurst in particular but many others....literally saying leave Reform and vote for Lowe because it makes no difference.
Since Restore have started to make headway, suddenly this is changing, but it's only gotten worse insult wise and it's rarely to do with policy.
So on this point Lawrence is the pot calling the kettle black....especially as he's come out with the leftist 'woke right' crap.
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georgenorman
Member
- Country
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England
I just watched it. The fact remains that Remain will split the anti-Labour vote and could let Burnham in.