Glasner Out

The question was 'name a player who has not improved under Glasner.'
Nobody can seriously argue that the players listed have improved under him.
One can make excuses, list mitigating circumstances, blame the players, but ultimately they have not improved.
I do hold Glasner partly responsible because of his tactical inflexibility which sets up players to fail.
My point was that none of the players listed were already at the club so who can measure "improvement". None of the players you have listed have declined since playing under Glasner so it's an impossible thing to measure.

I feel like fans have a bee in their bonnet about Glasner and will clutch at straws to fit a narrative that he is a bad manager. At the end of the day, we are 2 trophies better off and in a European Quarter Final. Literally one manager ago, our goal was to avoid relegation at all costs. I'm looking at hotels in Florence today. We might never have these times again and people are seriously wishing this away with bringing in Dyche and finding minor negatives like "which players haven't improved under Glasner"
 
Palace have been terrible under Glasner coincidentally since he announced privately to Parish that he wasn't going to stay on after his term expired. Before then he wasn't terrible. He did also lose his three most gifted players, two of which this season, again a complete coincidence that the team plays worse without its more gifted players. Funny that.

i get your point, but look at say Bournemouth and Brentford, who have also lost their best players, actually more than Palace, and yet have bought well and out performed us this season. Also no whingeing from the managers, they just get on with it, as that's the football life.

Bournemouth i think sold 3 of their 4 back four last summer and recently Semenyo. Brentford lost Toney and then 2 strikers last summer and also their manager yet have replaced and continued to perform.
 
My point was that none of the players listed were already at the club so who can measure "improvement". None of the players you have listed have declined since playing under Glasner so it's an impossible thing to measure.

I feel like fans have a bee in their bonnet about Glasner and will clutch at straws to fit a narrative that he is a bad manager. At the end of the day, we are 2 trophies better off and in a European Quarter Final. Literally one manager ago, our goal was to avoid relegation at all costs. I'm looking at hotels in Florence today. We might never have these times again and people are seriously wishing this away with bringing in Dyche and finding minor negatives like "which players haven't improved under Glasner"
Not declined?
Nketiah played for England, look at him under Glasner.
Johnson was top scorer for Spurs last season. I think he hasn't scored in 14 games or so with us.
Neither are really played in the correct position.
At least he hasn't tried Nketiah at RWB I suppose!
For the record I think Glasner is a good manager.
But I think he plays players in the wrong positions on occasions.
 
i get your point, but look at say Bournemouth and Brentford, who have also lost their best players, actually more than Palace, and yet have bought well and out performed us this season. Also no whingeing from the managers, they just get on with it, as that's the football life.

Bournemouth i think sold 3 of their 4 back four last summer and recently Semenyo. Brentford lost Toney and then 2 strikers last summer and also their manager yet have replaced and continued to perform.
Bournemouth and Brentford haven’t had to fit in another 12 European games to date. It was going ok til December when we had a game every 3 days then we and Glasner seemed to lose the plot. It’s calmed down a bit now. He’s going anyway in two months’ time.
 
Not declined?
Nketiah played for England, look at him under Glasner.
Johnson was top scorer for Spurs last season. I think he hasn't scored in 14 games or so with us.
Neither are really played in the correct position.
At least he hasn't tried Nketiah at RWB I suppose!
For the record I think Glasner is a good manager.
But I think he plays players in the wrong positions on occasions.

Was top scorer in one of the worst spurs squads in recent memory and they still decided to get rid of him, there's a reason for that. Well we've discovered that for ourselves, he's useless.
 
Was top scorer in one of the worst spurs squads in recent memory and they still decided to get rid of him, there's a reason for that. Well we've discovered that for ourselves, he's useless.
Well Johnson wouldn't have been my choice, but that's largely because he plays in Sarr's position and he's not going to displace him so he's a very expensive cover player.
Let's come at it from a different perspective
Do you endorse Glasner's use of Johnson as RWB, or for that matter Devenny or Sosa in the role?
Or his persistence with playing players in the number 10 roles to which they are unsuited.
Or his lack of tactical flexibility even when results and performances are poor.

It doesn't make him a bad manager as his record indicates, at clubs before Palace as well.
However, other managers are not averse to trying Plan B when Plan A doesn’t work, or preparing for situations where you face ten men.
We carry on with the same formation regardless (apart from last night when he actually tried Mateta with Larsen in desperation)!

When's all is said and done, I'm sure fans will look back fondly on Glasner's spell with us, but let's not lose sight of the fact that he had at his disposal some of the greatest players in our history.
 
I understand the focus on Glasner's inflexibility. Its hard to remember this whilst sitting though an hour of three centre backs passing it to each other but, actually, wider circumstances matter far more than tactics.

We were always going to have a heavy hangover this year. All the tactics in the world don't change the fact that after the FA Cup the key players had achieved all they could at Palace and their moment to move on had come. That was always going to spread, and this was always going to be a transition year. That rarely involves free flowing football and great success.

Even if we focus on tactical approach alone, blaming Glasner's rigidity for our predictable, pedestrian performances, especially against lesser sides, misses the wider point: What type of manager should Palace have, and what way should he work?

Oversimplifying drastically, I'd say managers come in three models:

A. Man-managers/Scouts. Its about recruitment, then dealing with people. They may have little truck with tactics.
B. Tacticians. This week we 352, next week a 433, then a 541. Will also switch systems in-game. All depends who we are playing.
C. Systems Men. I have my method. It rarely changes. I am knowledgeable and experienced in its application. Players must adapt to it, not the other way around.

Ferguson, Zidane, Redknapp et al are in category A. Perfect, if you've got more money than everyone else. We don't.

Emery and Guardiola are in cat B. Hard to imagine either persevering with 343 at Palace this long, but there is a fine line between tweaking to good effect with a deep, strong squad that is doing well, and flailing desperately from one idea to another at a shallow, average squad that is struggling. Which type of squad are we most likely to possess?

Conte would be in cat C. Plainly, Glasner is. Hodgson and Pulis, too: The three key managers in our longest ever stay at the top and only major trophy. Its not like it isn't proven to work for us.

Attacking play requires inspiration from key individuals, defending requires cooperation as a unit. We will always need more of the latter. That will not change. Even when we have four or five cracking players we will always have average ones alongside them, and embedding a system is the best way to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts, if at least half the parts are average.

Glasner was, and remains, the right type for Palace. He is doing what his type do. This is how it looks when we not only have lesser players, but ones who less suit the system. That doesn't mean Glasner should be criticised for a rigid tactical approach - that is the right way to work at Palace, overall.

It is to be hoped that the new man brings a system that better suits the players we have spent big on, but not necessarily that he is far more flexible. Glasner was totally out of order around Xmas time, has soiled his reputation, and could have been sacked for it. I'm not sure his rigidity is a fair stick to beat him with, though. They are separate things.
 
I understand the focus on Glasner's inflexibility. Its hard to remember this whilst sitting though an hour of three centre backs passing it to each other but, actually, wider circumstances matter far more than tactics.

We were always going to have a heavy hangover this year. All the tactics in the world don't change the fact that after the FA Cup the key players had achieved all they could at Palace and their moment to move on had come. That was always going to spread, and this was always going to be a transition year. That rarely involves free flowing football and great success.

Even if we focus on tactical approach alone, blaming Glasner's rigidity for our predictable, pedestrian performances, especially against lesser sides, misses the wider point: What type of manager should Palace have, and what way should he work?

Oversimplifying drastically, I'd say managers come in three models:

A. Man-managers/Scouts. Its about recruitment, then dealing with people. They may have little truck with tactics.
B. Tacticians. This week we 352, next week a 433, then a 541. Will also switch systems in-game. All depends who we are playing.
C. Systems Men. I have my method. It rarely changes. I am knowledgeable and experienced in its application. Players must adapt to it, not the other way around.

Ferguson, Zidane, Redknapp et al are in category A. Perfect, if you've got more money than everyone else. We don't.

Emery and Guardiola are in cat B. Hard to imagine either persevering with 343 at Palace this long, but there is a fine line between tweaking to good effect with a deep, strong squad that is doing well, and flailing desperately from one idea to another at a shallow, average squad that is struggling. Which type of squad are we most likely to possess?

Conte would be in cat C. Plainly, Glasner is. Hodgson and Pulis, too: The three key managers in our longest ever stay at the top and only major trophy. Its not like it isn't proven to work for us.

Attacking play requires inspiration from key individuals, defending requires cooperation as a unit. We will always need more of the latter. That will not change. Even when we have four or five cracking players we will always have average ones alongside them, and embedding a system is the best way to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts, if at least half the parts are average.

Glasner was, and remains, the right type for Palace. He is doing what his type do. This is how it looks when we not only have lesser players, but ones who less suit the system. That doesn't mean Glasner should be criticised for a rigid tactical approach - that is the right way to work at Palace, overall.

It is to be hoped that the new man brings a system that better suits the players we have spent big on, but not necessarily that he is far more flexible. Glasner was totally out of order around Xmas time, has soiled his reputation, and could have been sacked for it. I'm not sure his rigidity is a fair stick to beat him with, though. They are separate things.
I agree with much raised here, but where I disagree is the conclusion.
If his rigidity negatively impacts on results, performances, and the confidence of certain players, then I think it is a stick to beat him with.
For example Carrick has managed to transform underperforming players and results at Man United by playing them in a system and in positions to get the best out of them.
Sometimes football gets unnecessarily complicated.
 
I agree with much raised here, but where I disagree is the conclusion.
If his rigidity negatively impacts on results, performances, and the confidence of certain players, then I think it is a stick to beat him with.
For example Carrick has managed to transform underperforming players and results at Man United by playing them in a system and in positions to get the best out of them.
Sometimes football gets unnecessarily complicated.

It is hard not to feel that the 343 system is hindering performances, but we don't actually know if playing a different system would have had us in a noticeably better position. We won't know until next season, when much the same set of players put something different into action. Even then, they will be doing so following a pre-season working on it rather than a mid-season switch.

Perhaps it would have worked well for us, as it has for United. Perhaps not, though. Perhaps we would now be criticising Glasner for moving away from what he and the players were familiar with during a time of wider change and uncertainty, when he could have just maintained the same approach and seen us through safely. We are, after all, fine in the league and in the quarter finals of this mickey mouse euro thing. Its not like we ever reached a point where sticking with 343 was madness.

I'm certainly keen to see someone new try something different next season, but I am not so sure that Glasner is inhibiting the potential of the players. Or at least, I am not sure any harm he is doing in that respect is not outweighed by the benefits of stability and familiarity.
 
I think it is more a case of having players of the quality of Eze, Guehi, and a firing Mateta in the team. Add Olise from those games coming up to two years ago and we'd probably easily be challenging for a Champions League spot
Rubbish. We had all those players ans Michael Olise in Roy Hodgson's team
 
I don't think there's anyone currently (or imminently) available, who is better than Glasner. Because that's what the fans who want him gone now, seem to have overlooked.
Glasner will be gone soon, in any event, then the brown stuff is likely to hit the fan. It's a tough job being manager at a selling club, and not a lot of good managers might fancy that.
Every club is a selling club if the money is right. You might not have noticed recently but Palace have only sold players in recent years if we've received brilliant offers.
Palace are no more a selling club than anyone else.
 
Not declined?
Nketiah played for England, look at him under Glasner.
Johnson was top scorer for Spurs last season. I think he hasn't scored in 14 games or so with us.
Neither are really played in the correct position.
At least he hasn't tried Nketiah at RWB I suppose!
For the record I think Glasner is a good manager.
But I think he plays players in the wrong positions on occasions.
Nketiah had one senior England cap. Not exactly a regular in the squads. He's also been plagued with injury so his success isn't measurable at this stage to be fair to him.
If you define improvement/decline on only goals scored than yes Johnson has "declined" in the 2 months he's been with us. If you measure it by league position, than he has "improved". It's easy to modify which stats you use to try to define your argument - at the end of the day, it's all pointless because he's been in our squad for such a limited time.

I agree he plays players in the wrong positions, mostly because I think we haven't signed his players in January - given his desire to leave, why would we. He will have to make do with what he has and so far he's not done too bad, on reflection.
 
Every club is a selling club if the money is right. You might not have noticed recently but Palace have only sold players in recent years if we've received brilliant offers.
Palace are no more a selling club than anyone else.
Don't think Michael Olise's fee of 50m was 'brilliant'.

Bayern completely underpaid imo.
 
I understand the focus on Glasner's inflexibility. Its hard to remember this whilst sitting though an hour of three centre backs passing it to each other but, actually, wider circumstances matter far more than tactics.

We were always going to have a heavy hangover this year. All the tactics in the world don't change the fact that after the FA Cup the key players had achieved all they could at Palace and their moment to move on had come. That was always going to spread, and this was always going to be a transition year. That rarely involves free flowing football and great success.

Even if we focus on tactical approach alone, blaming Glasner's rigidity for our predictable, pedestrian performances, especially against lesser sides, misses the wider point: What type of manager should Palace have, and what way should he work?

Oversimplifying drastically, I'd say managers come in three models:

A. Man-managers/Scouts. Its about recruitment, then dealing with people. They may have little truck with tactics.
B. Tacticians. This week we 352, next week a 433, then a 541. Will also switch systems in-game. All depends who we are playing.
C. Systems Men. I have my method. It rarely changes. I am knowledgeable and experienced in its application. Players must adapt to it, not the other way around.

Ferguson, Zidane, Redknapp et al are in category A. Perfect, if you've got more money than everyone else. We don't.

Emery and Guardiola are in cat B. Hard to imagine either persevering with 343 at Palace this long, but there is a fine line between tweaking to good effect with a deep, strong squad that is doing well, and flailing desperately from one idea to another at a shallow, average squad that is struggling. Which type of squad are we most likely to possess?

Conte would be in cat C. Plainly, Glasner is. Hodgson and Pulis, too: The three key managers in our longest ever stay at the top and only major trophy. Its not like it isn't proven to work for us.

Attacking play requires inspiration from key individuals, defending requires cooperation as a unit. We will always need more of the latter. That will not change. Even when we have four or five cracking players we will always have average ones alongside them, and embedding a system is the best way to make the whole greater than the sum of its parts, if at least half the parts are average.

Glasner was, and remains, the right type for Palace. He is doing what his type do. This is how it looks when we not only have lesser players, but ones who less suit the system. That doesn't mean Glasner should be criticised for a rigid tactical approach - that is the right way to work at Palace, overall.

It is to be hoped that the new man brings a system that better suits the players we have spent big on, but not necessarily that he is far more flexible. Glasner was totally out of order around Xmas time, has soiled his reputation, and could have been sacked for it. I'm not sure his rigidity is a fair stick to beat him with, though. They are separate things.
It's perfectly ok to call out Glasner on his rigidity. Glasner has his template and sticks to it, fair enough, but when it comes to inserting players in positions just for the sake of the template then things are not perfect, as we have seen. Did the club really acquire Johnson so he could be shoehorned in at wingback? It doubt it. For Glasner the template is sacrosanct, other considerations are secondary.
 

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