Iran

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Trump has shat his own bed. Let him own it. What the British public want is important.

You must be so happy we got Brexit then.

It's rather fortunate that the public weren't calling the shots in the WW1 or WW2. They might be speaking German instead of Urdu. Leave military stuff to the military.

You will get your vote in a few years.

 

[Spindle]

Where did I say that?

Iran's military is being systematically destroyed. With no air force, they can't defend anything. It is just a question of finding missile and drone sites and destroying them. Also, they can't build any more because their production has been smashed. They are cutting their own throats by cutting of the shipping so it's a slow death.

Keep spinning.

 

[McAhuna]

 

[McAhuna]

It's another Iraq or Afghanistan. A war with no clear defined objectives. In this instance, it has been entirely of the US making. I think Europe should stay out of it, but the danger is that the US will occupy and take control of Iranian oil fields and leave Europe at the mercy of Russian and US energy imports.
Ed Miliband being interviewed by Laura Kuenssberg on BBC at the moment. Perhaps the current situation might enable Miliband to remove his head from his anus.

Iraq and Afghanistan were outstanding successes .....for the military industrial complex that like endless war.
Which is probably the point in Iran, too.
As those who know, know.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Iraq and Afghanistan were outstanding successes .....for the military industrial complex that like endless war.
Which is probably the point in Iran, too.
As those who know, know.

I've got war fatigue.

 

[kevlee]

The intrigue…Trump says Iran wanted to talk a deal but the terms weren’t good enough… Iran says I don’t think so, we have never done that and vowed to fight on.
maybe Hekseth will do a couple of lines and bring out the really big bombs this week in advance of the US ground troops arriving.
While Netflix start the script on the new war movie

 

[beak]

The intrigue…Trump says Iran wanted to talk a deal but the terms weren’t good enough… Iran says I don’t think so, we have never done that and vowed to fight on.
maybe Hekseth will do a couple of lines and bring out the really big bombs this week in advance of the US ground troops arriving.
While Netflix start the script on the new war movie

They might be used on Kharg island but American public opinion would not allow a full scale deployment on the Iranian mainland.

 

[chris123]

Why? That's what allies do.

An international effort is exactly what is needed at the Straits of Hormuz. It needs to be policed going forward for the sake of those who have to get oil and gas from other countries.

Pay attention Ed Milliband.

Unaffordable insurance will make vessel movement impossible.

 

[beak]

Unaffordable insurance will make vessel movement impossible.

Trump is offering a government backed insurance scheme of $20 billion, you could say he is pushing the boat out. 😉

 

[Racehorse-80s]

Recently Trump said he didn’t want the UK joining a war the US had already won , Now he is asking for ships and planes from the UK to keep the Strait of Hormuz open .
Seems Epic fury is turning rapidly into Epic feck up , I’ve backed Trump in the past but he’s making a pigs ear of disarming Iran and bringing about regime change , Talk of victory in days has now turned to weeks and the Wests economy is struggling , There appears to be no end game in place , Iran aren’t bending despite the massive bombardment it’s suffered .
Grounds troops are clearly needed to bring about victory .

 

[kevlee]

UK announces over £5m in humanitarian aid for Lebanon to help civilians following Israeli strikes.
I imagine the refugees will follow soon.

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

I think it was stirlingsays who said that Trump 2.0 is not the Trump 1.0 that people voted for in his first term.
Trump now suggesting if Europe doesn't assist, NATO will be at risk. (as if the Ukraine situation didn't expose it as a spent force) The threat from the USA is clearly a potential oil grab

 

[Forest Hillbilly]

UK announces over £5m in humanitarian aid for Lebanon to help civilians following Israeli strikes.
I imagine the refugees will follow soon.

You mean all those medical doctors , scientists and business-builders who the UK need in the economy, who will arrive undocumented by inflatable raft in Kent ? 😀

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Recently Trump said he didn’t want the UK joining a war the US had already won , Now he is asking for ships and planes from the UK to keep the Strait of Hormuz open .
Seems Epic fury is turning rapidly into Epic feck up , I’ve backed Trump in the past but he’s making a pigs ear of disarming Iran and bringing about regime change , Talk of victory in days has now turned to weeks and the Wests economy is struggling , There appears to be no end game in place , Iran aren’t bending despite the massive bombardment it’s suffered .
Grounds troops are clearly needed to bring about victory .

Which part of it is 'a feck up'?
It's hard to respond to such mindless nonsense.

You and the usual suspects don't seem to understand simple truths. Europe's military is underfunded and uncoordinated. Without the USA, we could not defend ourselves in an all out war with one of our enemies. Some of the left wing run countries in Europe, including us, decided to snub our greatest and very necessary ally because of domestic popularity and because Trump. Incredibly stupid.

The other issue for Britain is that in terms of an attacking force, we have nothing to offer in assisting the US. They don't need us. Now Trump is offering us a way to do something that allows Starmer to claim he was not an aggressor and yet perform a function that we might just about be capable of. It would be an international effort to keep the old oil flowing which would be good for all of us in Europe.

This war has only been going on for a couple of weeks and idiots are talking like it's Vietnam. The biggest enemy of Western values is being destroyed and you are complaining. No doubt you would prefer if they got nukes and Islamists ruled the world. You think that just because someone comes out and talks a lot of tough words about resistance that the war is failing?
Do you think anyone is going to admit that they're getting absolutely battered? Once again you would rather side with the enemy and believe their bullshit.

 

[Stirlingsays]

I think it was stirlingsays who said that Trump 2.0 is not the Trump 1.0 that people voted for in his first term.
Trump now suggesting if Europe doesn't assist, NATO will be at risk. (as if the Ukraine situation didn't expose it as a spent force) The threat from the USA is clearly a potential oil grab

The point has been made by commentators that Trump's administration has stopped mass deportations as a policy because, 'it doesn't play well with independents'.

But he starts a war of choice that's unpopular with the majority other than the Maga diehards (which isn't the majority who vote Republican because most vote for the least worst option).....and more importantly goes against how he campaigned since 2015.

America doesn't have the quality of troops in enough numbers it had following 9/11....it just doesn't. It has great tech but standards have fallen over all, along with the passing of the generations and while its top units are the same quality it's allowed social liberalism within its rank and file.

To invade and overthrow a country like Iran.....I'd estimate you'd need at least, 200,000 troops and all the air support and equipment.....probably closer to 300,000 really. The war would attract all the western haters from around the region (a lot of people) who would join just to kill an American, even if that meant dying themselves. God knows how many would die on both sides.

Then you have what happens after....How do you keep the new friendly regime in power....it means you'd have to stay and protect them.

So, it would be insane to invade Iran....lives, cost and long term effectiveness......but then again, it wasn't too bright for America to have started the war.

Trump wants anti Iranian outside and anti Mullah forces inside Iran to do the work for him........It's possible but not likely as the anti Israeli sentiment in the region is so high even against enemies of the regime. Instead like many said beforehand, what's more likely is that you're going to get a more radical Iranian regime.

What would be scary is if Israel wanted to then 'salt' the earth, as Rome did to Carthage, to end the discussion once and for all.

 

[Stirlingsays]

Which part of it is 'a feck up'?
It's hard to respond to such mindless nonsense.

You and the usual suspects don't seem to understand simple truths. Europe's military is underfunded and uncoordinated. Without the USA, we could not defend ourselves in an all out war with one of our enemies. Some of the left wing run countries in Europe, including us, decided to snub our greatest and very necessary ally because of domestic popularity and because Trump. Incredibly stupid.

The other issue for Britain is that in terms of an attacking force, we have nothing to offer in assisting the US. They don't need us. Now Trump is offering us a way to do something that allows Starmer to claim he was not an aggressor and yet perform a function that we might just about be capable of. It would be an international effort to keep the old oil flowing which would be good for all of us in Europe.

This war has only been going on for a couple of weeks and idiots are talking like it's Vietnam. The biggest enemy of Western values is being destroyed and you are complaining. No doubt you would prefer if they got nukes and Islamists ruled the world. You think that just because someone comes out and talks a lot of tough words about resistance that the war is failing?
Do you think anyone is going to admit that they're getting absolutely battered? Once again you would rather side with the enemy and believe their bullshit.

I like his post as a description of the unwiseness of the war.

However, I certainly agree that we should be protecting our own economic self interests in the strait.

We can do that while considering this war of choice a significant overall negative for us and western right wing politics in general.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

I like his post as a description of the unwiseness of the war.

However, I certainly agree that we should be protecting our own economic self interests in the strait.

We can do that while considering this war of choice an overall negative for us.

You have to ask yourself, what is more important?
Claiming some moral high ground about the evils of war or supporting our ally when they ask for help. An ally without which we have no serviceable nuclear deterrent.
If Britain was under attack, we would be begging the US for help like we did in WW1 and 2. Does NATO suddenly only count when we need America?

We are in this war by association whether we like it or not. Starmer is a self serving prick. He has made us look like mugs simply for his own standing at home. Meanwhile, pro Islamists are out in our capital supporting the enemy.

 

[Stirlingsays]

You have to ask yourself, what is more important?
Claiming some moral high ground about the evils of war or supporting our ally when they ask for help. An ally without which we have no serviceable nuclear deterrent.
If Britain was under attack, we would be begging the US for help like we did in WW1 and 2. Does NATO suddenly only count when we need America?

We are in this war by association whether we like it or not. Starmer is a self serving prick. He has made us look like mugs simply for his own standing at home. Meanwhile, pro Islamists are out in our capital supporting the enemy.

Britain independently developed its own nuclear option in the 50s. I'm pro American because historically they are our genetic cousins, however while it makes economic sense to try to be friendly (unlike what the left want) we don't have to be a client slave to the Americans.

We do what we do and buy what we buy because we are a client state due to that being the cost of fighting WW2 and not speaking German apparently......But that doesn't seem to matter to our elites anymore because they obviously favour Arabic.

The bulk of elites who cared about us remaining England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland mainly died off in the 60s. The baby boomer elites started the process of betrayal and it's only gotten worse.

There are no invasion threats to the UK, other than what our own government allows to happen on immigration.

Nato is essentially America's toy and way of controlling Europe. With the advent of drones the need for troop sizes is significantly reduced anyway.....Unless something combats the drones that's going to stay that way.

I agree with protecting our economic interests and aiding the Americans where we can, without physical involvement in killing people in a nation who has done us no harm.....even if the regime there is horrible.

You know my attitude towards the Islamists.
They are also against abortion....so am I, at least how it currently stands.....they don't agree with the gay agendas being taught to kids.....Like me.
But points of agreement doesn't mean I'm ignorant to the very real threats they pose to us. That doesn't mean I'll frame an opinion purely upon what they like or don't like.

There are economic threats and our response should be in accordance with them.

 

[Hrolf The Ganger]

Britain independently developed its own nuclear option in the 50s. I'm pro American because historically they are our genetic cousins, however we don't have to be a client slave to the Americans.

We do what we do and buy what we buy because we are a client state due to that being the cost of fighting WW2 and not speaking German apparently......But that doesn't seem to matter to our elites anymore because they obviously favour Arabic.

The elites who cared about us remaining England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland mainly died off in the 60s.

There are no invasion threats to the UK, other than what our own government allows to happen on immigration.

I agree with protecting our economic interests and aiding the Americans where we can, without physical involvement in killing people in a nation who has done us no harm.

You know my attitude towards the Islamists but I'm not going to frame an opinion purely upon what they like or don't like. They are also against abortion....so am I, at least how it currently stands.....they don't agree with the gay agendas being taught to kids.....Like me.

There are economic threats and our response should be in accordance with them.

We are reliant on America for the hardware and upkeep of Trident. No point in us pushing the button if it doesn't work.
What cost would there be to become independent of America in the military sense? Is it even possible?
We cannot look at this like we are an equal partner or a big dog in the fight. We just aren't.
America calls the shots. It's foolish to believe otherwise.
Personally, I'm glad to know that for all its faults we have an ally which, under the current administration, wants to uphold the culture that we seem happy to lose.

There are no invasion threats to the UK because of America. Without them, we could be under the boot of Russia or at the mercy of a number of regimes that have far bigger military capability than we do.

We really have to be careful what we wish for.

 

[McAhuna]

You have to ask yourself, what is more important?
Claiming some moral high ground about the evils of war or supporting our ally when they ask for help. An ally without which we have no serviceable nuclear deterrent.
If Britain was under attack, we would be begging the US for help like we did in WW1 and 2. Does NATO suddenly only count when we need America?

We are in this war by association whether we like it or not. Starmer is a self serving prick. He has made us look like mugs simply for his own standing at home. Meanwhile, pro Islamists are out in our capital supporting the enemy.

A very binary interpretation of events.

Things rarely fall neatly into two binary choices, a good team and a bad team.
More often than not, there are just bad teams and bad teams.

I would prefer British lives weren't being lost for the Greater Israel project. If an odious turd like Starmer has made the right call for once, albeit for all the wrong reasons, then thank God for that. He's still an odious turd, but at least British troops aren't being sacrificed.