Iran

Racehorse-80s said:
The attack on Cyprus has shown how weak the UK military has become after years of cutbacks , The response to protecting UK citizens and assets effected by the war are just token gestures so far ..
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We became the average Norway that the left always wanted us to be (then they go and whine because we have no influence in the world).

Though it was mostly the Tories who continually cut the military spending review after review.....I remember them ending my war-time family's regiment in one of their cost cutting mergers.
 
Racehorse-80s said:
The attack on Cyprus has shown how weak the UK military has become after years of cutbacks , The response to protecting UK citizens and assets effected by the war are just token gestures so far ..
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Well when you have a PM who doesn’t seem to put the security of his country/citizens first, what do you expect. The way he handles matters makes it seem he is being controlled from elsewhere
 
Isreal have already put the new Supreme leader of Iran on their death list and called him an unacceptable replacement ..
He’s the second eldest son of the previous leader going by media reports ..
 
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Stirlingsays said:
We became the average Norway that the left always wanted us to be (then they go and whine because we have no influence in the world).

Though it was mostly the Tories who continually cut the military spending review after review.....I remember them ending my war-time family's regiment in one of their cost cutting mergers.
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Last year's review and the £billions committed over the next 5 years may reverse that trend, at least a bit. 5% GDP proposed by 2030. Obviously, we'll see.

I think the only remarkable thing about this is that the rebuild is wholly Labour initiated.

I know!
 
silvertop said:
Last year's review and the £billions committed over the next 5 years may reverse that trend, at least a bit. 5% GDP proposed by 2030. Obviously, we'll see.

I think the only remarkable thing about this is that the rebuild is wholly Labour initiated.

I know!
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Let's hope the military guys have been watching and learning from the Ukraine war and are investing heavily in drones, both attack and defence from them.

Because our military procurement over the years has been awful....as has been what direction we have invested in.

We better come up with effective defence systems against drones for those two aircraft carriers, otherwise those are just expensive metal pieces just waiting to visit the ocean floor.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Let's hope the military guys have been watching and learning from the Ukraine war and are investing heavily in drones, both attack and defence from them.

Because our military procurement over the years has been awful....as has been what direction we have invested in.

We better come up with effective defence systems against drones for those two aircraft carriers, otherwise those are just expensive metal pieces just waiting to visit the ocean floor.
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That is exactly what we are spending the cash on, as well as cyber stuff, new tanks, upgrades in destroyers and frigates and a new sub every 18 months.

But don't expect more personnel. And of those who remain, they will be far more techy and multi-service integrated. Well, that's the plan.

And I have said on the Ukraine topic that we are learning a great deal and testing our kit on the Ukraine front against the very opponents we are most likely to face. It is costing a lot, but it is like Christmas to the military.
 
silvertop said:
That is exactly what we are spending the cash on, as well as cyber stuff, new tanks, upgrades in destroyers and frigates and a new sub every 18 months.

But don't expect more personnel. And of those who remain, they will be far more techy and multi-service integrated. Well, that's the plan.

And I have said on the Ukraine topic that we are learning a great deal and testing our kit on the Ukraine front against the very opponents we are most likely to face. It is costing a lot, but it is like Christmas to the military.
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Let's hope you're right....but the subtext of what you are telling me here is that the UK never intends to have a military that can fight a war on its own......Unlike Poland, unlike Turkey.

Our troop numbers are too low and that tells me that if we do ever need to fight a real war.....that we will conscript.

Or they will try to anyway.
 
Stirlingsays said:
Let's hope you're right....but the subtext of what you are telling me here is that the UK never intends to have a military that can fight a war on its own......Unlike Poland, unlike Turkey.

Our troop numbers are too low and that tells me that if we do ever need to fight a real war.....that we will conscript.

Or they will try to anyway.
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No, it will be by alliance.

And outside the two world wars, for centuries we have always had a relatively small standing army, but a very powerful navy. We largely conquered via local muscle.

That isn't going to change. Our current rise as a naval power is the key. By 2030, we are once again likely to have one of the most effective navies on the planet. We already have two carrier groups (e.g. France only has one) but it is our subs that will tilt the balance.

Obviously, we cannot compete with China or the USA; but we will go to war with neither. Thus, China's increase in influence over us will be effected by economic inter-dependence. Not by PLA tanks charging down the Mall. They won't need to. Or want to.
 
silvertop said:
No, it will be by alliance.

And outside the two world wars, for centuries we have always had a relatively small standing army, but a very powerful navy. We largely conquered via local muscle.

That isn't going to change. Our current rise as a naval power is the key. By 2030, we are once again likely to have one of the most effective navies on the planet. We already have two carrier groups (e.g. France only has one) but it is our subs that will tilt the balance.

Obviously, we cannot compete with China or the USA; but we will go to war with neither. Thus, China's increase in influence over us will be effected by economic inter-dependence. Not by PLA tanks charging down the Mall. They won't need to. Or want to.
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I agree with your historical analysis but in the era of drones I'm not so sure that navies work that well as enforcement.....I think drone swarms take over.

We can only hope that in the arm's race against them something effective is found......because it's going to be swarms of them at once....and at the moment the only defence I can envisage for ships are defence swarms against them.....and some would always get through.

It would be interesting to know what tech is being developed.
 
Stirlingsays said:
I agree with your historical analysis but in the era of drones I'm not so sure that navies work that well as enforcement.....I think drone swarms take over.

We can only hope that in the arm's race against them something effective is found......because it's going to be swarms of them at once....and at the moment the only defence I can envisage for ships are defence swarms against them.....and some would always get through.

It would be interesting to know what tech is being developed.
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We already have it. It effectively sends up some sort of gamma ray (or whatever?) and deactivates the mechanics. They just fall from the sky.

Not sure if that is still in R+D or being actively tested in Ukraine (they would not tell us if they were). But by 2027 we will also have Dragon Fire installed on some of our destroyers. Laser weaponry where a cost of £10 a shot compares to £1m a missile... but with the same impact. They can take out a target the size of a £1 coin from a mile away. That's the stuff of Star Trek. Drones should not get near any of our ships, whether single or swarm.
 
silvertop said:
That is exactly what we are spending the cash on, as well as cyber stuff, new tanks, upgrades in destroyers and frigates and a new sub every 18 months.

But don't expect more personnel. And of those who remain, they will be far more techy and multi-service integrated. Well, that's the plan.

And I have said on the Ukraine topic that we are learning a great deal and testing our kit on the Ukraine front against the very opponents we are most likely to face. It is costing a lot, but it is like Christmas to the military.
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It is rather pointless having a military if 'the law' prevents you from ever using it.

What no one is saying is that the US has no need of allies, only their air bases. Sure it's handy to have Israel for gulf conflicts, but American military might can win any limited conventional war on its own.

Supporting America is much more about solidarity. It is about appearances. Idiot two tier Kier has put his weak domestic position before relations with our big brother. The ally which we couldn't defend ourselves without.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
It is rather pointless having a military if 'the law' prevents you from ever using it.

What no one is saying is that the US has no need of allies, only their air bases. Sure it's handy to have Israel for gulf conflicts, but American military might can win any limited conventional war on its own.

Supporting America is much more about solidarity. It is about appearances. Idiot two tier Kier has put his weak domestic position before relations with our big brother. The ally which we couldn't defend ourselves without.
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They know we are always there when the shooting starts. Always.

Vietnam was the only "exception"; but even that is nuanced (another thread).

Starmer has shown good sense in keeping us out of an engagement that is effectively a US backed Israeli attack. And Trump has done us a big favour complaining about our lack of help. But I would bet we are doing loads covertly e.g. black ops, intel etc.
 
Hrolf The Ganger said:
It is rather pointless having a military if 'the law' prevents you from ever using it.

What no one is saying is that the US has no need of allies, only their air bases. Sure it's handy to have Israel for gulf conflicts, but American military might can win any limited conventional war on its own.

Supporting America is much more about solidarity. It is about appearances. Idiot two tier Kier has put his weak domestic position before relations with our big brother. The ally which we couldn't defend ourselves without.
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There is always the defence of the nation?
 
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