Iran

Stirlingsays said:
I agree with your historical analysis but in the era of drones I'm not so sure that navies work that well as enforcement.....I think drone swarms take over.

We can only hope that in the arm's race against them something effective is found......because it's going to be swarms of them at once....and at the moment the only defence I can envisage for ships are defence swarms against them.....and some would always get through.

It would be interesting to know what tech is being developed.
Click to expand...

Ok, so this is what I meant by different drones. I know a bit about the naval defence. To sink an undefended warship you'll need a decent sized warhead so the types of drone you are talking about, the swarm, wouldn't cut it. Effective warheads will be too big and expensive to "swarm", eg Exocet.
Our Destroyers currently have "Sea Viper" Aster 15 and 30, plus close in defence in the form of Phalanx. Our type 26 have "Sea Ceptor" which uses CAMM, plus the Phalanx.
The C&C systems can track and assess up to 255 small fast objects at once. Anything within 30km can be hit, surface vessels , aircraft, missiles or drones, including ballistic missiles (Aster30). Anything small and not worth £££ firing a missile will be drilled by Phalanx. I guess the greatest threat might be a thousand small drones going for the radar system, but small drones aren't going to have the range, for example. Going forward Dragonfire will get installed which will form part of that layered defence, it's very cheap and good for small drones but needs clear weather to be effective, so Phalanx wouldn't be replaced.
 
Spindle said:
Ok, so this is what I meant by different drones. I know a bit about the naval defence. To sink an undefended warship you'll need a decent sized warhead so the types of drone you are talking about, the swarm, wouldn't cut it. Effective warheads will be too big and expensive to "swarm", eg Exocet.
Our Destroyers currently have "Sea Viper" Aster 15 and 30, plus close in defence in the form of Phalanx. Our type 26 have "Sea Ceptor" which uses CAMM, plus the Phalanx.
The C&C systems can track and assess up to 255 small fast objects at once. Anything within 30km can be hit, surface vessels , aircraft, missiles or drones, including ballistic missiles (Aster30). Anything small and not worth £££ firing a missile will be drilled by Phalanx. I guess the greatest threat might be a thousand small drones going for the radar system, but small drones aren't going to have the range, for example. Going forward Dragonfire will get installed which will form part of that layered defence, it's very cheap and good for small drones but needs clear weather to be effective, so Phalanx wouldn't be replaced.
Click to expand...

That does sound reassuring, though I'd have to see it real world.
I know drones can now carry significant explosives and the development in this area is ongoing and very concerning. Stuff like range and so on are just developmental issues.

Let's hope that the anti drone tech is up to it......otherwise navies are of the past.
 
silvertop said:
We already have it. It effectively sends up some sort of gamma ray (or whatever?) and deactivates the mechanics. They just fall from the sky.

Not sure if that is still in R+D or being actively tested in Ukraine (they would not tell us if they were). But by 2027 we will also have Dragon Fire installed on some of our destroyers. Laser weaponry where a cost of £10 a shot compares to £1m a missile... but with the same impact. They can take out a target the size of a £1 coin from a mile away. That's the stuff of Star Trek. Drones should not get near any of our ships, whether single or swarm.
Click to expand...

Great marketing.

£10 a shot, true. Totally different system to a £1m missile (that'll be Aster 30, CAMM are £200k each). Dragonfire will not be able to remotely do what those missiles can do. And 2027, yeah it'll happen but don't get your hopes up on function.
 
Stirlingsays said:
That does sound reassuring, though I'd have to see it real world.
I know drones can now carry significant explosives and the development in this area is ongoing and very concerning. Stuff like range and so on are just developmental issues.

Let's hope that the anti drone tech is up to it......otherwise navies are of the past.
Click to expand...

They've already been operating. HMS Richmond used a CAMM on a drone in 2024.

Anti ship missiles are knocking on the door of 150-200kg of high explosive frags. That's the kind of oomph you need on a warship. The Shahed drones Iran are firing have 15kg warhead. It's not easy to sink a fleet ship under the umbrella of FLAADS or PAAMS, and aircraft carriers are notoriously tough.
 
Spindle said:
They've already been operating. HMS Richmond used a CAMM on a drone in 2024.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between a test and proof of concept and real world implementation and use.....it won't be single drone based that's for sure.

We will see I guess.

Spindle said:
Anti ship missiles are knocking on the door of 150-200kg of high explosive frags. That's the kind of oomph you need on a warship. The Shahed drones Iran are firing have 15kg warhead. It's not easy to sink a fleet ship under the umbrella of FLAADS or PAAMS, and aircraft carriers are notoriously tough.
Click to expand...

All this is going to happen anyway.....it's an arms race, what you see now obviously is going to ramp up either way.

Obviously if you are looking to take out a particular ship you are programming a swarm of drones to attack it at the same time, not just a few. These systems will have to be very robust to deal with that.

It comes down to economics......the cost of a sunken ship is far far more costly than a thousand drones.
 
Stirlingsays said:
There's a big difference between a test and proof of concept and real world implementation and use.....it won't be single drone based that's for sure.

We will see I guess.



All this is going to happen anyway.....it's an arms race, what you see now obviously is going to ramp up either way.

Obviously if you are looking to take out a particular ship you are programming a swarm of drones to attack it at the same time, not just a few. These systems will have to be very robust to deal with that.

It comes down to economics......the cost of a sunken ship is far far more costly than a thousand drones.
Click to expand...

Well, it wasn't a test, it was a real attack.

I won't expand more, but trust me it definitely works. The cost of a missile is far less than a ship. Re read what I said about the warheads though. Plus, the frigates and destroyers are there as fleet area defence not just local defence.
 
Stirlingsays said:
That's cool, but we are talking about swarm attacks.
Click to expand...

Yes but you'd have to swarm with 50 sea skimming missiles, per defence ship, and practically that's not possible even for the Americans. Subs with torpedos maybe, but that's the primary role of the type 26, a sub killer, supported by P8 Poseidon from the RAF.
 
What is gripping me slightly, is the number of people working in the Gulf, presumably for tax reasons, who now expect HMG to pick up the tab for flying them to safety.
All that money in taxes they avoided paying to HMG, perhaps they could charter their own planes
 
Forest Hillbilly said:
What is gripping me slightly, is the number of people working in the Gulf, presumably for tax reasons, who now expect HMG to pick up the tab for flying them to safety.
All that money in taxes they avoided paying to HMG, perhaps they could charter their own planes
Click to expand...
It's the same the whole world over,
It's the poor what gets the blame,
It's the rich what gets the pleasure,
Isn't it a blooming shame?
The rich do not pay in they leech off the system,the poor get their measly pension taxed to pay for it after grafting for forty years.
 
It seems the UK, France and Spain are only Muslim countries opposed to the removal of the regime in Iran. All the rest seem to be in favour of it.

Strange times indeed.
 
eaglesdare said:
It seems the UK, France and Spain are only Muslim countries opposed to the removal of the regime in Iran. All the rest seem to be in favour of it.

Strange times indeed.
Click to expand...
This is proof, if you needed it, of the influence of Islam under left wing governments. I am ashamed of our leadership. Their hubris and incompetence is equal and unrivalled.
The left wing press are also a disgrace. The West is at war and they won't publically support it.

I don't care what people's personal opinions are. We should be 100% behind America while it tackles arguably our most dangerous enemy and an enemy of the free world both secular and religious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Holmesdale Online Shop

Back
Top